The Bitter Truth (The Ignored Facts): Future Applicants must know this! - USMLE Forums
USMLE Forums Logo
USMLE Forums         Your Reliable USMLE Online Community     Members     Posts
Home
USMLE Articles
USMLE News
USMLE Polls
USMLE Books
USMLE Apps
Go Back   USMLE Forums > IMG Residency Match Forum

IMG Residency Match Forum International Medical Graduates (IMGs) discussing the residency matching process.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-24-2014
USMLE Forums Scout
 
Steps History: 1 + CS
Posts: 27
Threads: 11
Thanked 16 Times in 7 Posts
Reputation: 26
Correct Answer The Bitter Truth (The Ignored Facts): Future Applicants must know this!

Hey guys,

I'm writing this as part of my own personal experience. You are free to comment, please!
The interview handout should essentially be based on merit, but turns out that this is not entirely so.
My scores are 240/245/CS Pass 1st/2014 grad/3m of electives. Looks good?
Well, apparently not for Pediatrics, it seems. I have just managed 4 interviews till now, while some lower-than-me scores have managed 7-8.
Why?
Here's my top 'list of bias':

1. Contacts: Yes! You have an alumnus who's a chief resident/third year/any resident with a good approach to the PD/Co-ordinator?
You're good to go. They'll place your application on top of the heap. And the others, seemingly more deserving ones, will not even get a peek-a-boo into their apps. With more than 3000 applications for 10-odd positions, this is the easiest way for many programs to work.

2. You are married to a current resident/fellow? Bingo.
Even if your scores maybe below the belt for top-tier programs, you have an edge. A beautiful, top of the extra edge.

3. US Citizen/Green Card/European/Australian Grads: No explanation required. They will get preferred over you, especially if both of you have similar credentials.

4. Caribbean Grads/Latin America Grad: Their Spanish knowledge lends them an edge in NY, FL, TX programs. They are preferred in most places.

5. Your medical school representation: In India, if you're from AIIMS or Manipal (Yes, Manipal: private colleges with unending riches galore!), chances of your alumni being here are high. And so is the chance of your college to be known to most reviewers. So, you're good to go. You might have worked your ASS off to get into a government college back home, but Manipal was a better option if you wanted USA.

6. Indian/Pakistani with none of the above: Dayum, you're the last in the legacy. So even if your scores are good and you have some good amount of USCE, you're not really welcome (they call it Candidate Fatigue). Yes, they have plenty of us. And 'more of us' doesn't add to the 'diversity of their program.'

You may wish to agree or disagree. But, this is what my observation is. Feel free to pen down your own!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The above post was thanked by:
camella.ben (11-10-2014), DRMZAKHAN (10-31-2014), pranavmerchant (10-26-2014)


  #2  
Old 10-24-2014
USMLE Forums Scout
 
Steps History: 1+CK+CS
Posts: 64
Threads: 0
Thanked 16 Times in 14 Posts
Reputation: 26
Default

Have to disagree with #4. I don't think students going to the Caribbean gives any serious spanish knowledge but you're right about being preferred in many programs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old 10-24-2014
USMLE Forums Addict
 
Steps History: Not yet
Posts: 165
Threads: 14
Thanked 28 Times in 23 Posts
Reputation: 38
Default

Agree with most of the stuff..

But getting into manipal is not easy either(me being from manipal),the reason why manipal is well known in US is because in every batch there are 60 NRI's(mostly from US) and it's obvious for them get back to US after mbbs,so manipal has a vast representation in US.

And I agree that snrs help out juniors get in residency,but even for that we need to get decent scores in the steps.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
  #4  
Old 10-24-2014
USMLE Forums Scout
 
Steps History: 1 + CS
Posts: 27
Threads: 11
Thanked 16 Times in 7 Posts
Reputation: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doctor_ind View Post
Agree with most of the stuff..

But getting into manipal is not easy either(me being from manipal),the reason why manipal is well known in US is because in every batch there are 60 NRI's(mostly from US) and it's obvious for them get back to US after mbbs,so manipal has a vast representation in US.

And I agree that snrs help out juniors get in residency,but even for that we need to get decent scores in the steps.
Yes, true that it may not be easy. But I believe most of us who started to prepare for the PMTs wanted to get in a government college in the first place, Manipal or private colleges were always secondary options.
I'm trying to tell here that a government college education in India will not help you get a residency in the US, atleast not any extra edge. If you want the advantage of good networking, get into Manipal.
I repent that decision, so to say. My rank was in the top 20 in Manipal, but ended up in a state govt college instead so save some moolah. Yes, I regret
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The above post was thanked by:
Sahil.R (10-25-2014)
  #5  
Old 10-24-2014
USMLE Forums Scout
 
Steps History: 1+CK+CS
Posts: 25
Threads: 4
Thanked 26 Times in 6 Posts
Reputation: 36
Default

Nicely written! Times are tough. After getting the crappy usmle out of the way, one would think that the worst is over. But, nothing is farther than the truth. Getting a residency is very tough if you don't know the right people. Good scores alone won't get you anywhere. Yes, stellar, out of the world scores help, but how many of us get those kind of scores? Mediocrity has no place in the world anymore. It's a shitty postiion to be in, but we chose this path and knew what we were up against.
So, guys chins up! No negative thoughts. Live well and hope for the best. They say 'Karma is a bitch' and it comes back to bite you in the ass. We did our karma, which was reading for thousands of hours, cut off from society, working against all odds. So, let the Karma come back and I assure you, it will pat you on the back saying 'a job well done' and that day, we all will be as happy as a hog in the sewer and getting drunk like there was no tomorrow.
Happy, smiling faces people. Let them bring it on. We will see, who comes out the winner. We destroyed their 'tough' licensing exams, now we will destroy the impediments they throw our way. That day is not far, when we along with all our loved ones will have tears in our eyes, but those tears will be tears of joy!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The above post was thanked by:
dhara03 (10-25-2014), drsrb (10-27-2014), dsrp (10-27-2014), izt_is (10-27-2014), pranavmerchant (10-26-2014), richapanchal (10-24-2014), Sahil.R (10-25-2014), tangled (11-10-2014)
  #6  
Old 10-24-2014
USMLE Forums Addict
 
Steps History: Not yet
Posts: 165
Threads: 14
Thanked 28 Times in 23 Posts
Reputation: 38
Default

Not everone from manipal matches either,i knew quiet a few of my snrs who din't match.

What's done is done,ur CV is good and im confident enuff that u will do well.

Good luck
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The above post was thanked by:
IMlover (10-24-2014), richapanchal (10-24-2014)
  #7  
Old 10-24-2014
USMLE Forums Guru
 
Steps History: 1 + CK
Posts: 454
Threads: 20
Thanked 340 Times in 161 Posts
Reputation: 360
Default

I do believe contacts go a long way in getting you IVs but I had none and Im getting invites from a fair number of places. You have a really good application(its better than mine) and i applied for surgery so you will get IVs for sure.
__________________
262/261/PASS 1st attempt/238- USCE 1.5 mo (Uni hospital). YOG -2013; home country resident for 6 mo
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old 10-24-2014
USMLE Forums Scout
 
Steps History: 1 + CS
Posts: 27
Threads: 11
Thanked 16 Times in 7 Posts
Reputation: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aman_j View Post
I do believe contacts go a long way in getting you IVs but I had none and Im getting invites from a fair number of places. You have a really good application(its better than mine) and i applied for surgery so you will get IVs for sure.
Congrats Aman! You have super-stellar scores and I'm sure you have many more IVs coming your way. Scores like yours, are hard to ignore, sans or with contacts
IMO, scores are the only available 'uniform equalizer' to programs to gauge and compare IMGs, so having stellar scores works magic, irrespective of other application components.
Problem is, with mediocrity...the 230s, 240s.
We're a bunch of them and form the majority of applicants. A second look into 'the rest of our application' may need an 'extra push'.
I appreciate your comment, thank you!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9  
Old 10-24-2014
USMLE Forums Guru
 
Steps History: 1 + CK
Posts: 454
Threads: 20
Thanked 340 Times in 161 Posts
Reputation: 360
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by richapanchal View Post
Congrats Aman! You have super-stellar scores and I'm sure you have many more IVs coming your way. Scores like yours, are hard to ignore, sans or with contacts
IMO, scores are the only available 'uniform equalizer' to programs to gauge and compare IMGs, so having stellar scores works magic, irrespective of other application components.
Problem is, with mediocrity...the 230s, 240s.
We're a bunch of them and form the majority of applicants. A second look into 'the rest of our application' may need an 'extra push'.
I appreciate your comment, thank you!
Thanks! But 240 is no way close to mediocrity. Thats an amazing score as well. A friend on mine also applied for peads. Apparently the process is extremely slow this year so dont worry im sure you will get good interviews at amazing places
__________________
262/261/PASS 1st attempt/238- USCE 1.5 mo (Uni hospital). YOG -2013; home country resident for 6 mo
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The above post was thanked by:
richapanchal (10-24-2014), usmled10 (10-24-2014)
  #10  
Old 10-24-2014
USMLE Forums Scout
 
Steps History: 1+CK+CS
Posts: 89
Threads: 17
Thanked 51 Times in 26 Posts
Reputation: 61
Default

I don't think being a Latin American or a Pakistani plays in/against your favor. The other points are valid though, connections and visa status are big contributors in the application
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The above post was thanked by:
kmb1908 (10-25-2014), usmled10 (10-24-2014)
  #11  
Old 10-24-2014
USMLE Forums Master
 
Steps History: 1+CK+CS
Posts: 634
Threads: 47
Thanked 324 Times in 162 Posts
Reputation: 335
Default

I don't mean to sound like a bitch, but instead of going on a rant so soon (it's not even the end of October yet and you have 4 interviews which isn't bad at all!) you should focus on the fact that you have 4 on hand already, there are plenty of others with nothing on hand still. If I were you, I'd be grateful for that much. And there's more to come, come November.

Secondly, even if you feel you're not getting what you "deserve", I'd advise you to take a step back and see what else you could have done to improve your application. Probably taken step 3, gotten some meaningful research under your belt etc. Also, quality of your LoRs and PS play a huge role. Consider all that as factors too.

Contacts are important in any field in any country. That's the way life works, deal with it. Not everyone is blessed with a relative who's a PD/Fellow/Resident, but you still build contacts by talking to people, being personable and sociable, putting yourself out there and trying. You don't sit back on your chair and say "damn these people who know residents". Question how did you get to know this resident. Don't be afraid to ask anyone and everyone for help. There are lot of people at well placed positions who really like to help out people in our position because they know what we're going through.

Don't look at the non modifiable factors such as visas, country of medical school etc. They do play a role, but it's not in our control, and it can be beaten. It has been beaten by people before us, and will be beaten by people after us. Chin up and be patient instead of giving way to emotions.

Disclaimer: I'm an Indian IMG myself, from a relatively obscure private medical school. Applied for IM and have 11 interviews currently. And I'm not fortunate enough to have many alumni in the US or relatives who are physicians here (like you).
__________________
MATCHED! 243/261/Pass/2012/USCE 4 months University Teaching Hospital/2 publications/Requiring visa
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The above post was thanked by:
Cubandoc (01-03-2015), IMlover (10-24-2014), insa_ny (11-12-2014), kmb1908 (10-25-2014), Medicine23 (10-24-2014), Oldgradandmom (10-27-2014), pranavmerchant (10-26-2014), swwal (10-25-2014), usmled10 (10-24-2014)
  #12  
Old 10-24-2014
USMLE Forums Scout
 
Steps History: 1 + CS
Posts: 27
Threads: 11
Thanked 16 Times in 7 Posts
Reputation: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohit39 View Post
I don't mean to sound like a bitch, but instead of going on a rant so soon (it's not even the end of October yet and you have 4 interviews which isn't bad at all!) you should focus on the fact that you have 4 on hand already, there are plenty of others with nothing on hand still. If I were you, I'd be grateful for that much. And there's more to come, come November.

Secondly, even if you feel you're not getting what you "deserve", I'd advise you to take a step back and see what else you could have done to improve your application. Probably taken step 3, gotten some meaningful research under your belt etc. Also, quality of your LoRs and PS play a huge role. Consider all that as factors too.

Contacts are important in any field in any country. That's the way life works, deal with it. Not everyone is blessed with a relative who's a PD/Fellow/Resident, but you still build contacts by talking to people, being personable and sociable, putting yourself out there and trying. You don't sit back on your chair and say "damn these people who know residents". Question how did you get to know this resident. Don't be afraid to ask anyone and everyone for help. There are lot of people at well placed positions who really like to help out people in our position because they know what we're going through.

Don't look at the non modifiable factors such as visas, country of medical school etc. They do play a role, but it's not in our control, and it can be beaten. It has been beaten by people before us, and will be beaten by people after us. Chin up and be patient instead of giving way to emotions.

Disclaimer: I'm an Indian IMG myself, from a relatively obscure private medical school. Applied for IM and have 11 interviews currently. And I'm not fortunate enough to have many alumni in the US or relatives who are physicians here (like you).
My post may sounds like a rant, in fact. But I just wrote what I felt.
Anyway, thank you for your post. Adds a lot of positivity to this post. Good luck!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The above post was thanked by:
Cubandoc (01-03-2015), tangled (11-10-2014)
  #13  
Old 10-25-2014
USMLE Forums Guru
 
Steps History: 1 + CS
Posts: 357
Threads: 13
Thanked 172 Times in 113 Posts
Reputation: 182
Default

Lol you will end up with probably 10 interviews and your still here crying.

I am positive on about more then half that list and have only 1 interview so far.

Soooooo yea.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The above post was thanked by:
Lawliet (11-12-2014), med101 (10-25-2014)
  #14  
Old 10-25-2014
rafa_decosta's Avatar
USMLE Forums Scout
 
Steps History: 1+CK+CS+3
Posts: 46
Threads: 8
Thanked 15 Times in 13 Posts
Reputation: 25
Default

i agree
to your post richapanchal

usmle is getting more competetive and even people with great scores getting 5/6 ivs.....d ones without contcts i mean
something ppl applying next coming yrs need to watch out for
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15  
Old 10-25-2014
Smashingdude's Avatar
USMLE Forums Veteran
 
Steps History: 1+CK+CS+3
Posts: 268
Threads: 73
Thanked 515 Times in 109 Posts
Reputation: 525
Default

I can relate to richapanchal, and agree to most of the things. I think he is going on a rant because of the broken expectations. Judging by the scores, I am confident he is an A'star student, and was among the top of his class. That's why when you don't get interviews, and your expectations are shattered, it really hurts. I can totally relate to it as I feel the same. If you were an A'star student all your life, and have been working hard, you have pretty high expectations.

When I first started on this daunting journey of the USMLE and residency, all my seniors and people from the forums made it clear that if you have good scores, you have a good chance. So putting that into perspective, I worked really hard, and got pretty decent scores. 250/250/241. These are around the 2nd deviation and in the 85-90th percentile range. I think my academic aptitude is right there at the mark.

However, even with these scores, I am having lots of troubles getting interviews. So far, I have around 5 mediocre programs, and one I am not planning to go cause they don't sponsor visa. Oh yes, visa is a huge issue since many programs just don't like sponsoring anymore. But still, I see people who need a visa, and average scores are getting interviews. Only one thing remains. CONTACTS!

US is not a fair system at all. Forget your merit. I had everything on my application compared to any US grad. Except contacts and powerful letters. 'Vasta', as we call it in our language, runs deep through the veins of this ghastly system. So all you future applicants requiring visas, you really need good contacts. Or I think scores like 250 aren't good anymore. You need to get 260 at least to stand a chance.

Anyway, lets hope for the best. November maybe the sanctuary I've been waiting for, and I may change my mind. If I do, I'll definitely post again and write with an optimistic approach. So far, its such a dark season.
__________________
Persistent and perseverance, and the flowing waterfall carves rivers along the lofty mountains
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
250/250/241/CS, 2012 European Grad, 9m USCE, Need visa, MATCHED to IM
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The above post was thanked by:
pranavmerchant (10-26-2014), richapanchal (10-28-2014), straightshooter (10-25-2014)



  #16  
Old 10-25-2014
USMLE Forums Newbie
 
Posts: 1
Threads: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Reputation: 10
Default

I totally agree with richapanchal and Smashingdude. I am also in the same boat. Hopefully we all will match.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #17  
Old 10-25-2014
USMLE Forums Newbie
 
Steps History: 1+CK+CS
Posts: 5
Threads: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
Reputation: 14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smashingdude View Post
I can relate to richapanchal, and agree to most of the things. I think he is going on a rant because of the broken expectations. Judging by the scores, I am confident he is an A'star student, and was among the top of his class. That's why when you don't get interviews, and your expectations are shattered, it really hurts. I can totally relate to it as I feel the same. If you were an A'star student all your life, and have been working hard, you have pretty high expectations.

When I first started on this daunting journey of the USMLE and residency, all my seniors and people from the forums made it clear that if you have good scores, you have a good chance. So putting that into perspective, I worked really hard, and got pretty decent scores. 250/250/241. These are around the 2nd deviation and in the 85-90th percentile range. I think my academic aptitude is right there at the mark.

However, even with these scores, I am having lots of troubles getting interviews. So far, I have around 5 mediocre programs, and one I am not planning to go cause they don't sponsor visa. Oh yes, visa is a huge issue since many programs just don't like sponsoring anymore. But still, I see people who need a visa, and average scores are getting interviews. Only one thing remains. CONTACTS!

US is not a fair system at all. Forget your merit. I had everything on my application compared to any US grad. Except contacts and powerful letters. 'Vasta', as we call it in our language, runs deep through the veins of this ghastly system. So all you future applicants requiring visas, you really need good contacts. Or I think scores like 250 aren't good anymore. You need to get 260 at least to stand a chance.

Anyway, lets hope for the best. November maybe the sanctuary I've been waiting for, and I may change my mind. If I do, I'll definitely post again and write with an optimistic approach. So far, its such a dark season.
It's a combination of everything,good scores,med school,yog,LORs,research.......one of my frend with a just above average score on both steps has got 9 Ivs , because he has very good research on his profile with good LORs . So it's everything put together
This said scores and your medical school I guess are the most imporatnt,followed by a recent yog
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18  
Old 10-26-2014
USMLE Forums Guru
 
Steps History: 1 + CS
Posts: 357
Threads: 13
Thanked 172 Times in 113 Posts
Reputation: 182
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smashingdude View Post
I can relate to richapanchal, and agree to most of the things. I think he is going on a rant because of the broken expectations. Judging by the scores, I am confident he is an A'star student, and was among the top of his class. That's why when you don't get interviews, and your expectations are shattered, it really hurts. I can totally relate to it as I feel the same. If you were an A'star student all your life, and have been working hard, you have pretty high expectations.

When I first started on this daunting journey of the USMLE and residency, all my seniors and people from the forums made it clear that if you have good scores, you have a good chance. So putting that into perspective, I worked really hard, and got pretty decent scores. 250/250/241. These are around the 2nd deviation and in the 85-90th percentile range. I think my academic aptitude is right there at the mark.

However, even with these scores, I am having lots of troubles getting interviews. So far, I have around 5 mediocre programs, and one I am not planning to go cause they don't sponsor visa. Oh yes, visa is a huge issue since many programs just don't like sponsoring anymore. But still, I see people who need a visa, and average scores are getting interviews. Only one thing remains. CONTACTS!

US is not a fair system at all. Forget your merit. I had everything on my application compared to any US grad. Except contacts and powerful letters. 'Vasta', as we call it in our language, runs deep through the veins of this ghastly system. So all you future applicants requiring visas, you really need good contacts. Or I think scores like 250 aren't good anymore. You need to get 260 at least to stand a chance.

Anyway, lets hope for the best. November maybe the sanctuary I've been waiting for, and I may change my mind. If I do, I'll definitely post again and write with an optimistic approach. So far, its such a dark season.
Bro the U.S. system definitely isn't perfect but it's still the best around the world. Try to apply to Canada, they won't even sneeze your way. Or try India where there are a million people for like ten seats. I'm sure with your scores you will be getting at least 12 interviews, just wait it out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19  
Old 10-26-2014
USMLE Forums Scout
 
Steps History: 1+CK+CS
Posts: 55
Threads: 0
Thanked 30 Times in 21 Posts
Reputation: 40
Default

people are way too spoiled after US trying their best to appease everyone. i don't understand why these people want to work here in the first place.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The above post was thanked by:
Medicine23 (10-26-2014), rockstar88 (10-27-2014), STEPaid (10-27-2014)
  #20  
Old 10-26-2014
USMLE Forums Guru
 
Steps History: 1 + CS
Posts: 357
Threads: 13
Thanked 172 Times in 113 Posts
Reputation: 182
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by megahigh View Post
people are way too spoiled after US trying their best to appease everyone. i don't understand why these people want to work here in the first place.
Yeah, that's the most funny part of people complaining. Nobody put a gun up to anybodies head and told them to come here. You decided to come here after seeing all the perks and benefits you will be receiving. Otherwise stay home, not that hard of a concept to grasp. :shrug:
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The above post was thanked by:
rockstar88 (10-27-2014), rohit39 (10-26-2014), STEPaid (10-27-2014)
  #21  
Old 10-26-2014
USMLE Forums Addict
 
Steps History: Not yet
Posts: 110
Threads: 30
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Reputation: 22
Default

This is so disappointing as i am in final year and started this journey with preparing for step 1 and all this talk could make anyone like me thinking about quitting this whole thing

But on other side i remember last match season was very good ,guys with one IV matched and also with poor scores i think we should postpone this talk at least in end of 2014 bcz i believe November will be a rain of IVs
Good luck everyone
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22  
Old 10-26-2014
Smashingdude's Avatar
USMLE Forums Veteran
 
Steps History: 1+CK+CS+3
Posts: 268
Threads: 73
Thanked 515 Times in 109 Posts
Reputation: 525
Default

@Medicine23 & @megahigh

Its not complaining. Its not that someone put a gun to my head and told me to come here. I am just saying its a tough road, and pretty difficult even for A star students. I don't expect everyone to understand or agree to my experience. Its a trait you acquire when you have been top of the class all your life. You want to go after the best, you always do well, you give your blood into it, and you have some certainty that you will do good in a particular situation based on your previous experience. When these two don't add up, its just frustrating.

As I mentioned earlier, when you are top of the line in your field, you want to pursue for the best. No doubt US has the best system in residency, much better than our home countries. I had certain expectations when I came here, and thought that if I gave my best shot and did well in the exams and made a good resume, I can be at least sure of matching at some good program. Its completely baffling to you when you realize that's not the case anymore. There is so much more than merit alone that will get you the spot.

However, its still early to give my final opinion, and I'll make a separate post detailing my experience. I may change my mind completely depending on the coming weeks. As of now, its just all this bottled up anger and frustration venting out...

@hamada.

No, I am not discouraging anyone. I am just letting everyone know to avoid the mistakes I did, learn from my experience, develop solid contacts and get good letters, solve your visa issues, and give it your best shot. At the end of the day, its your destiny that plays the final hand. Having said that, one thing I know for sure: Hard work pays off, always!
__________________
Persistent and perseverance, and the flowing waterfall carves rivers along the lofty mountains
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
250/250/241/CS, 2012 European Grad, 9m USCE, Need visa, MATCHED to IM
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The above post was thanked by:
straightshooter (10-26-2014)
  #23  
Old 10-26-2014
USMLE Forums Scout
 
Steps History: 1+CK+CS
Posts: 55
Threads: 0
Thanked 30 Times in 21 Posts
Reputation: 40
Default

you are no longer applying for a med school. you are essentially applying for a job. in any job market, anything that can put your foot to the door is a fair game. there is a tendency especially for those scoring above 240+ to feel they have "earned" something. no one has earned anything in this game until he/she got the job.

had you titled this post differently and if your tone was to educate others on reality of "job" market that we call residency, i would have been more understanding. but to call this a bias shows deep naivete in this process.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The above post was thanked by:
rohit39 (10-26-2014)
  #24  
Old 10-26-2014
USMLE Forums Veteran
 
Steps History: 1+CK+CS+3
Posts: 226
Threads: 15
Thanked 180 Times in 110 Posts
Reputation: 190
Default

I understand that feeling of broken expectations. I think people need to take this kind of post as what it is: rant/vent/ whatever you want to call it. This is a stressful time and we get sensitive. Smashingdude has a point. Rohit has a very nice pov too.

For future applicants, learn from this post that scores alone are not enough unless if it is super stellar. Build your networks from now. Find a research position. I thought scores alone will get me through. If only I knew better. But, what's done is done for me. For future apps, take this as a lesson.

All the best to all. Hope November will be much better.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The above post was thanked by:
rohit39 (10-26-2014)
  #25  
Old 10-26-2014
USMLE Forums Scout
 
Steps History: 1 + CS
Posts: 27
Threads: 11
Thanked 16 Times in 7 Posts
Reputation: 26
Default

For all future applicants who might be a little discouraged seeing my post:
Focus on your scores guys.
Bottomline is, if you score stellar, nobody gives a $#!t to the rest of your application.
My points (as listed above) may stand true only for mediocrity.
Rise above, raise your bar to the 250/260s and you won't have a thing to worry about.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The above post was thanked by:
doctor_ind (10-26-2014)



  #26  
Old 10-27-2014
USMLE Forums Scout
 
Steps History: 1+CK+CS
Posts: 40
Threads: 11
Thanked 12 Times in 6 Posts
Reputation: 22
Default

LOL, I am SO SO discouraged seeing everyone's scores here.

I'm like 212/217/passed YOG2012, 2months observership detroit med center, 1.yr and 6mo worked as a research associate, 1 publication, no contacts, need visa, and I was still so motivated.

I am amazing at clinical skills. I suck at theory, I study well, I always know my stuff, to the point I taught step 1 ck and cs to other students who managed to score 240+. Unfortunately, somehow I have always been a bad test taker. I get panicked and ruin everything ending up with really low scores. All I know, if I'm given a chance to prove myself clinically, I can nail it. I have struggled a lot, and with these low scores i might not even get a chance to prove I can do something.

Feel blessed, you guys!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #27  
Old 10-27-2014
USMLE Forums Scout
 
Steps History: Not yet
Posts: 21
Threads: 6
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Reputation: 16
Default

Absolutely agree with point 4. There are states where the 70%-80% of the population are hispanics plus the fact that the health care reform will cover 30 million residents and most of them are hispanics.

Almost everything in medicine is about communication. If you speak spanish you will be preferred over someone who is simply a wonderful test-taker.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #28  
Old 10-27-2014
USMLE Forums Scout
 
Steps History: 1+CK+CS
Posts: 64
Threads: 0
Thanked 16 Times in 14 Posts
Reputation: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chessmaster View Post
Absolutely agree with point 4. There are states where the 70%-80% of the population are hispanics plus the fact that the health care reform will cover 30 million residents and most of them are hispanics.

Almost everything in medicine is about communication. If you speak spanish you will be preferred over someone who is simply a wonderful test-taker.
Spanish definitely helps but US students who go to the Caribbean wouldn't be preferred because of any minor spanish they picked up in a Caribbean med school (if any at all since most of those countries use English). It's usually because of clinical experience and that most students would be US citizens anyway. Latin schools - yes that applies.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #29  
Old 10-27-2014
USMLE Forums Scout
 
Steps History: Not yet
Posts: 21
Threads: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts
Reputation: 17
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by datar View Post
Nicely written! Times are tough. After getting the crappy usmle out of the way, one would think that the worst is over. But, nothing is farther than the truth. Getting a residency is very tough if you don't know the right people. Good scores alone won't get you anywhere. Yes, stellar, out of the world scores help, but how many of us get those kind of scores? Mediocrity has no place in the world anymore. It's a shitty postiion to be in, but we chose this path and knew what we were up against.
So, guys chins up! No negative thoughts. Live well and hope for the best. They say 'Karma is a bitch' and it comes back to bite you in the ass. We did our karma, which was reading for thousands of hours, cut off from society, working against all odds. So, let the Karma come back and I assure you, it will pat you on the back saying 'a job well done' and that day, we all will be as happy as a hog in the sewer and getting drunk like there was no tomorrow.
Happy, smiling faces people. Let them bring it on. We will see, who comes out the winner. We destroyed their 'tough' licensing exams, now we will destroy the impediments they throw our way. That day is not far, when we along with all our loved ones will have tears in our eyes, but those tears will be tears of joy!
I have to say honestly, after applying for everything with average scores mostly i.e. 240s, excellent university result transcripts and MSPE and US LORs with USCE, I thought I would at least be offered more than 3 interviews of the 86 IM programs that I applied for.

Meanwhile, i have a few friends who did the same as me results wise but no where near as good a CV, and even those with sub par scores in the 210s getting more interviews than me and in top-tier University programs no less.

Well that was just a huge slap in the face, and I now realize so much the importance of connections. Unfortunately, I have none. It sadden's me greatly. I wish the best for everyone, but I also want a good training spot! Life I suppose.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The above post was thanked by:
DrGoogle (10-27-2014), hope2015 (10-28-2014), rafa_decosta (10-27-2014), richapanchal (10-28-2014)
  #30  
Old 10-27-2014
rafa_decosta's Avatar
USMLE Forums Scout
 
Steps History: 1+CK+CS+3
Posts: 46
Threads: 8
Thanked 15 Times in 13 Posts
Reputation: 25
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by izt_is View Post
I have to say honestly, after applying for everything with average scores mostly i.e. 240s, excellent university result transcripts and MSPE and US LORs with USCE, I thought I would at least be offered more than 3 interviews of the 86 IM programs that I applied for.

Meanwhile, i have a few friends who did the same as me results wise but no where near as good a CV, and even those with sub par scores in the 210s getting more interviews than me and in top-tier University programs no less.

Well that was just a huge slap in the face, and I now realize so much the importance of connections. Unfortunately, I have none. It sadden's me greatly. I wish the best for everyone, but I also want a good training spot! Life I suppose.


i would like to stay hopeful thru november

lets pray
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #31  
Old 10-27-2014
USMLE Forums Scout
 
Steps History: 1+CK+CS
Posts: 54
Threads: 1
Thanked 31 Times in 22 Posts
Reputation: 41
Default

Caribbean students, as someone posted above, are for the most part US citizens who could not get into a US medical school. They spend the first two years there, and the last two years in US hospitals where they do all their rotations.

Their citizenship probably helps come residency time, but their US rotations probably help the most.

And right now the USMLE step 1 average is almost a 230---this is for US students who take the test after two years of medical school. So not sure what a competitive step 1 score is for foreign/caribbean/DO students right now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The above post was thanked by:
richapanchal (10-28-2014)
  #32  
Old 10-28-2014
USMLE Forums Guru
 
Steps History: 1 + CS
Posts: 357
Threads: 13
Thanked 172 Times in 113 Posts
Reputation: 182
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by izt_is View Post
I have to say honestly, after applying for everything with average scores mostly i.e. 240s, excellent university result transcripts and MSPE and US LORs with USCE, I thought I would at least be offered more than 3 interviews of the 86 IM programs that I applied for.

Meanwhile, i have a few friends who did the same as me results wise but no where near as good a CV, and even those with sub par scores in the 210s getting more interviews than me and in top-tier University programs no less.

Well that was just a huge slap in the face, and I now realize so much the importance of connections. Unfortunately, I have none. It sadden's me greatly. I wish the best for everyone, but I also want a good training spot! Life I suppose.
Newsflash bro, Contacts and connections work everywhere in life, not just the match........
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #33  
Old 10-28-2014
USMLE Forums Newbie
 
Steps History: ---
Posts: 3
Threads: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Reputation: 10
Default

Never mind, wrong topic

Last edited by sinus; 10-28-2014 at 12:59 PM. Reason: Wrong topic
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #34  
Old 11-09-2014
250orbust's Avatar
USMLE Forums Addict
 
Steps History: Not yet
Posts: 108
Threads: 16
Thanked 39 Times in 34 Posts
Reputation: 49
Send a message via Skype™ to 250orbust
Default

Its about who you know, not what you know. I paid for medical school in its entirety (all $300,000 of it) by having my own business. And i gotta tell ya my brothers and sisters, who you know dictates your next move.
Believe if it you chose. Yes the 250 and 260's are amazing. They are premium branded standouts on a shelf full of mediocre products. The tide of deciding who gets in and who doesn't has also changed over the last couple of years. PDs need to be more discerning.

3000 applications, 10 spots...DO YOU REALLY THINK THEY EVEN GET TO YOUR APP? This is not pessimism. Just a wake up call. Utilize all your resources to network to get you application noticed. Not by your WORK but by your WORD.
It makes a grip load of difference.

Because that is what american medicine is. one big freemason network with a closed fraternity and sorority of insiders.

The whole world, business, politics, technology runs on familiarity, connections, and contacts. Do you think even half of your favorite music stars kids or movie actors kids even deserve to be on wax singing off the top of their lungs or acting on celluloid, when they really should be flipping burgers at in-n-out? They have connections. Thats why they are called contacts.....Do you think Zuckerberg bought Whatsapp from Jan Koum for $19 Billion because of his amazing ability to code software? Hell naw!! Connections. Familiarity. Selling his great product to Mark.

You are your own salesman and you resume is your wares. Sell it confidently to the right people. I hope all of you match. We will get there.
__________________
Dr 250 or BuSt
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by 250orbust; 11-09-2014 at 11:59 PM. Reason: Typos
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The above post was thanked by:
camella.ben (11-10-2014)
  #35  
Old 11-10-2014
USMLE Forums Scout
 
Steps History: 1 + CK
Posts: 39
Threads: 3
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Reputation: 11
Default

Agree 100% .. and I'd like to meet that person who spread the rumor that "Peds is less competitive " along the years...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message



  #36  
Old 11-11-2014
USMLE Forums Newbie
 
Steps History: Not yet
Posts: 6
Threads: 4
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Reputation: 10
Default how about Japanese?

How about the chance of Japanese getting into residency program in the US? Does anyone know it according to your observation?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #37  
Old 11-12-2014
USMLE Forums Veteran
 
Steps History: Not yet
Posts: 206
Threads: 13
Thanked 179 Times in 77 Posts
Reputation: 189
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by richapanchal View Post
For all future applicants who might be a little discouraged seeing my post:
Focus on your scores guys.
Bottomline is, if you score stellar, nobody gives a $#!t to the rest of your application.
My points (as listed above) may stand true only for mediocrity.
Rise above, raise your bar to the 250/260s and you won't have a thing to worry about.
I would hate for someone to read this post and take it as fact. Scores, regardless if "stellar" are only ONE part of the application, and from talking to attendings and other people involved in the residency selection process, a very high score just makes them pay MORE attention to the rest of your application, they definitely give much more than a $~!t... A high score only gets the application looked at, they don't offer residency spots solely on the basis of how you performed on an exam.

I guarantee that someone with scores >270 all round but an otherwise lame application will do much worse than someone with 240s and an overall solid application.

FWIW i got >260/>270 and the vast majority of my interviews are at low tier community programs. Ive had rejections from programs who have offered invites to people with below-average scores but clearly other attractive parts to their application.

Bottom line: for people starting out, yes scores are important, but even if you get stellar marks you still need to make sure the rest of your application is strong.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The above post was thanked by:
Hamada (11-12-2014), Medicine23 (11-12-2014)
  #38  
Old 11-12-2014
USMLE Forums Addict
 
Steps History: Not yet
Posts: 110
Threads: 30
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Reputation: 22
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by USMLEUK. View Post
I would hate for someone to read this post and take it as fact. Scores, regardless if "stellar" are only ONE part of the application, and from talking to attendings and other people involved in the residency selection process, a very high score just makes them pay MORE attention to the rest of your application, they definitely give much more than a $~!t... A high score only gets the application looked at, they don't offer residency spots solely on the basis of how you performed on an exam.

I guarantee that someone with scores >270 all round but an otherwise lame application will do much worse than someone with 240s and an overall solid application.

FWIW i got >260/>270 and the vast majority of my interviews are at low tier community programs. Ive had rejections from programs who have offered invites to people with below-average scores but clearly other attractive parts to their application.

Bottom line: for people starting out, yes scores are important, but even if you get stellar marks you still need to make sure the rest of your application is strong.
What to do if i am gradute? U mean research and observership ?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #39  
Old 11-12-2014
USMLE Forums Scout
 
Steps History: 1+CK+CS
Posts: 12
Threads: 4
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Reputation: 13
Default what should i do?

Hello Guys
I am a regular reader of usmle-forums, I owe a lot to these forums. But this is my first post.
I am an IMG with YOG 2013 and both step scores of low 250s. I will get CS results in late Nov and get ECFMG certified. I have good performance in my med school and got 1 US Lor but no publications. I need a visa.
What do u suggest?
I am thinking of applying in early December although its late. What are my chances for IM?
I would be glad to take the most low tier university program, I am little hesitant but will even take community program if I can match this year.
Need your help frens: which programs should I apply? how many?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message



Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the USMLE Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Medical School
Choose "---" if you don't want to tell. AMG for US & Canadian medical schools. IMG for all other medical schools.
USMLE Steps History
What steps finished! Example: 1+CK+CS+3 = Passed Step 1, Step 2 CK, Step 2 CS, and Step 3.

Choose "---" if you don't want to tell.

Favorite USMLE Books
What USMLE books you really think are useful. Leave blank if you don't want to tell.
Location
Where you live. Leave blank if you don't want to tell.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I'm done! The truth about step 1! Cautie Pie USMLE Step 1 Forum 114 02-05-2015 10:05 AM
Future-Doc Enterprise "Committed to your future and your success" Future-Doc USMLE Links & Free Ads 9 09-24-2013 09:07 AM
When to tell an Adopted Child the truth! lucas05 USMLE Step 1 Forum 14 08-01-2011 08:14 PM
Chest Pain and bitter taste at night! aktorque USMLE Step 1 Forum 4 01-07-2011 05:16 PM
Should we tell the truth? Yasmin85 IMG Residency Match Forum 7 10-01-2010 06:14 PM

RSS Feed
Find Us on Facebook
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

USMLE® & other trade marks belong to their respective owners, read full disclaimer
USMLE Forums created under Creative Commons 3.0 License. (2009-2014)