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IMG Residency Match Forum International Medical Graduates (IMGs) discussing the residency matching process.


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  #1  
Old 12-21-2014
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Default research vs usce

hello guys,
i might get a research at a good university but since its minimum of one year starting in march,i will not have a chance to gather lor or usce except from person whom i m doing research under. my yog is >4 years, so i am interested in research thinking that it will help me. i have done step 1 score n got good score.
should i leave this research chance n apply for observerships to get usce n lor?
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  #2  
Old 12-22-2014
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Default Hi

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Originally Posted by step2usm View Post
hello guys,
i might get a research at a good university but since its minimum of one year starting in march,i will not have a chance to gather lor or usce except from person whom i m doing research under. my yog is >4 years, so i am interested in research thinking that it will help me. i have done step 1 score n got good score.
should i leave this research chance n apply for observerships to get usce n lor?
I have PMed u.. Please check
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  #3  
Old 12-22-2014
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anyone? pls share ur views n experiences.
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  #4  
Old 12-22-2014
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Originally Posted by step2usm View Post
hello guys,
i might get a research at a good university but since its minimum of one year starting in march,i will not have a chance to gather lor or usce except from person whom i m doing research under. my yog is >4 years, so i am interested in research thinking that it will help me. i have done step 1 score n got good score.
should i leave this research chance n apply for observerships to get usce n lor?
I'll lay it out for you. As an IMG, you're simply screened out by score alone. In my field, we have talked about it and more than a few other applicants have been told we set your score at X amount before we will even look at your application.

Depending on your score, and the specialty you're looking to get into that threshold might be much lower. You need to inquiry yourself to get a ball park idea.

I totally disagree about observerships being worthless. You need to understand what it actually is. It is a 1month long interview for the program to see if you gel with them and they gel with you. You need to be better than everyone else. If they all start pre-rounding at 7am, you should have pre-rounded 30-45min earlier and had everything ready for them. Depending on where you are doing it, you're almost guaranteed an interview invite where you do the observership (try to get as many as you can afford) as long as it isn't some place like Hopkins/Yale etc. Be realistic!

I got one interview alone because I did an observership at one particular program. With that being said, my scores were also in line with what they stated for FMG to be given an interview. I worked extremely hard and tried to show them how hard I'd work for them. After all, you're always being judged.

Research wise: I do research, so I can give you great insight into this. It's very risky path. First your mentor needs to be active in publishing, this doesn't always happen and specially within 1 year. Many experiments just don't work, or by the time they do and you have enough to publish it's well past ERAS application submission. Second, not all fields appreciate research and some programs (community based) don't care at all.

Third, people in research can pretty much see you coming a mile away if you don't have at least some interest in research and it isn't going to help you much. They want you to truly be interested in it, otherwise you're going to hate your job and suck at it.

My interest is academic medicine, so research pathway was natural for me. I also had some research background, while it isn't necessary it's very important to give you at least some street credit. You need enough credibility that someone will take a chance on you to do research.

It's very time consuming to train you and majority of PI's aren't going to be thrilled to train you for 3 months only to have you leave in 7 months not to mention time you will be out of the lab for interview season. A lot of basic research is trial and error and depending on your background might take time to get use to. It's a completely different mind set, but I think it's very valuable as it challenges me to think very critically.

I also do basic science, so this might not apply to clinical research. Basic research has a lot of technical skill sets that take time to master. It isn't hard, but as I mentioned requires time requirement which takes you outside the "clinical medicine" domain.

Lastly, research isn't going to bring up bad scores. You research gives you an edge to research orientated programs, but you aren't going to get through the filters if you don't at least have decent scores. This isn't an absolute, but it will be a bigger uphill battle.

Hope this helps
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  #5  
Old 12-22-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkmailbox View Post
I'll lay it out for you. As an IMG, you're simply screened out by score alone. In my field, we have talked about it and more than a few other applicants have been told we set your score at X amount before we will even look at your application.

Depending on your score, and the specialty you're looking to get into that threshold might be much lower. You need to inquiry yourself to get a ball park idea.

I totally disagree about observerships being worthless. You need to understand what it actually is. It is a 1month long interview for the program to see if you gel with them and they gel with you. You need to be better than everyone else. If they all start pre-rounding at 7am, you should have pre-rounded 30-45min earlier and had everything ready for them. Depending on where you are doing it, you're almost guaranteed an interview invite where you do the observership (try to get as many as you can afford) as long as it isn't some place like Hopkins/Yale etc. Be realistic!

I got one interview alone because I did an observership at one particular program. With that being said, my scores were also in line with what they stated for FMG to be given an interview. I worked extremely hard and tried to show them how hard I'd work for them. After all, you're always being judged.

Research wise: I do research, so I can give you great insight into this. It's very risky path. First your mentor needs to be active in publishing, this doesn't always happen and specially within 1 year. Many experiments just don't work, or by the time they do and you have enough to publish it's well past ERAS application submission. Second, not all fields appreciate research and some programs (community based) don't care at all.

Third, people in research can pretty much see you coming a mile away if you don't have at least some interest in research and it isn't going to help you much. They want you to truly be interested in it, otherwise you're going to hate your job and suck at it.

My interest is academic medicine, so research pathway was natural for me. I also had some research background, while it isn't necessary it's very important to give you at least some street credit. You need enough credibility that someone will take a chance on you to do research.

It's very time consuming to train you and majority of PI's aren't going to be thrilled to train you for 3 months only to have you leave in 7 months not to mention time you will be out of the lab for interview season. A lot of basic research is trial and error and depending on your background might take time to get use to. It's a completely different mind set, but I think it's very valuable as it challenges me to think very critically.

I also do basic science, so this might not apply to clinical research. Basic research has a lot of technical skill sets that take time to master. It isn't hard, but as I mentioned requires time requirement which takes you outside the "clinical medicine" domain.

Lastly, research isn't going to bring up bad scores. You research gives you an edge to research orientated programs, but you aren't going to get through the filters if you don't at least have decent scores. This isn't an absolute, but it will be a bigger uphill battle.

Hope this helps
thank u so much for an elaborate answer. it cleared up lot of queries but i still have some. my concern for research is that my yog is 2010 (dec,31) i wish it was one or 2 days ahead,at least i cud say it 2011. so i was inclined towards research with the hope that it might help me to get over the deficit i am in from yog point. my step 1 score was 255+,right now preparing for ck and hunting for observerships . research isnt helpful if it dsnt get published? yes,i hv no prior knowledge in research ,neither i enjoy biostats a lot.,though i am a very curious mind. as u said,it is a very different field and that attracts me towards it more. this year is do or die kind of,i cant miss match of 2016,though chances seem already so bleak!!
do i sound depressed?
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  #6  
Old 12-22-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by step2usm View Post
thank u so much for an elaborate answer. it cleared up lot of queries but i still have some. my concern for research is that my yog is 2010 (dec,31) i wish it was one or 2 days ahead,at least i cud say it 2011. so i was inclined towards research with the hope that it might help me to get over the deficit i am in from yog point. my step 1 score was 255+,right now preparing for ck and hunting for observerships . research isnt helpful if it dsnt get published? yes,i hv no prior knowledge in research ,neither i enjoy biostats a lot.,though i am a very curious mind. as u said,it is a very different field and that attracts me towards it more. this year is do or die kind of,i cant miss match of 2016,though chances seem already so bleak!!
do i sound depressed?


You crushed it on the steps, much higher than I got. Your yog is 2010, therefore time is not on your side. You should be trying to get into residency ASAP. In fact you should have applied this year already (should have taken CK and CS to be ECFMG certified). That score alone is going to get you at least enough interviews to match in almost every field with the exception of surgical things it's not very FMG friendly.

Yes, observerships and passing the rest of your steps first attempt is essential at this point. If I had your score, I'm sure I would have picked up maybe another 8-14 interviews.
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  #7  
Old 12-22-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkmailbox View Post
You crushed it on the steps, much higher than I got. Your yog is 2010, therefore time is not on your side. You should be trying to get into residency ASAP. In fact you should have applied this year already (should have taken CK and CS to be ECFMG certified). That score alone is going to get you at least enough interviews to match in almost every field with the exception of surgical things it's not very FMG friendly.

Yes, observerships and passing the rest of your steps first attempt is essential at this point. If I had your score, I'm sure I would have picked up maybe another 8-14 interviews.
Hey there!!
I wanted to ask what is better in your view for applying for next year match or later. A zero YOG with medium socre like 235+ 240+ CS pass and apply next year .. or same score 2 year later with some research background.
Thanks
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  #8  
Old 12-22-2014
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It depends on your future goal.
If your goal is becoming a physician in America, it is not worth spending one more year.
You will be in better position to find any research spot in prestigious institutes once you finish your residency training.
If your goal is getting into commpetitive specialties or univ. programs then research exp would help.
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Old 12-22-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkmailbox View Post
You crushed it on the steps, much higher than I got. Your yog is 2010, therefore time is not on your side. You should be trying to get into residency ASAP. In fact you should have applied this year already (should have taken CK and CS to be ECFMG certified). That score alone is going to get you at least enough interviews to match in almost every field with the exception of surgical things it's not very FMG friendly.

Yes, observerships and passing the rest of your steps first attempt is essential at this point. If I had your score, I'm sure I would have picked up maybe another 8-14 interviews.
thanks for encouraging words. i will work on getting good score in next step n get some observerships.
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  #10  
Old 12-26-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by so55b View Post
It depends on your future goal.
If your goal is becoming a physician in America, it is not worth spending one more year.
You will be in better position to find any research spot in prestigious institutes once you finish your residency training.
If your goal is getting into commpetitive specialties or univ. programs then research exp would help.
Thanks for the reply
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  #11  
Old 12-28-2014
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I think research will be very helpful in the match for you.
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  #12  
Old 12-29-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DocAaliyah View Post
I think research will be very helpful in the match for you.
Can you please elaborate your answer for me. Thanks
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  #13  
Old 03-05-2015
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Does research experience in Canada counts good when applying for residency in US? I am getting a position in a research that is just starting, will takemore year to publish. If I want to apply in residency 2016 match , will that help me any way without paper being published by that time or should I not waste my time because I still have to take ck n cs.?
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Old 03-06-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirti pannu View Post
Does research experience in Canada counts good when applying for residency in US? I am getting a position in a research that is just starting, will takemore year to publish. If I want to apply in residency 2016 match , will that help me any way without paper being published by that time or should I not waste my time because I still have to take ck n cs.?

Research is a double edged sword. I don't think people understand this until you actually do research as junkemail has mentioned.

First, if you aren't genuinely interested in research, it will show and no matter where you do it, it isn't going to be helpful.

Second, if you do good quality research that is published in a high impact journal, then it doesn't matter where it's done necessarily. Yes, there is a bias for US based research since you're applying to US programs. As I mentioned, if it's still published in a high impact journal in your respective field it will help you no matter where it's done (for the most part).

Third, you USMLE scores >>>>> research. Your research isn't going to necessarily carry poor scores, although your research might help you network at conventions to approach people that can help you get past these filters.

On the interview trail, I had heard multiple stories of PD's saying if you're IMG, they need bear minimum of USMLE scores >1SD above mean for AMG to justify taking you over an AMG (this isn't true of all places and all fields, but Anesthesia was for the most part). If you look at our Anesthesia page, you'll notice most of us have very least > AMG mean score for step 1.

Which brings me to the point that if your scores aren't done, and you aren't verified by Sept (ECFMG) you're pretty much DoA. Unless your score is >250-260 on step 1, you're going to be filtered out by not being a complete package. Tons of people get high scores and have the complete package, but might not have research. In that case, the research sets you apart from the pack.

You are a HUGE risk by not having the complete package in (all scores), versus someone with >230 scores, but complete package. Look at it this way, the people that submitted all their scores are ECFMG certified and immediately eligible to start residency. You are not. Therefore in the pecking order, why would anyone take you who hasn't finished his exams yet. It's a huge risk if you fail, then they have to find someone they might not want to fill your spot.

Now if you can get your exams done AND do research that's great. On the interview trail you will talk about your research all the time (I did). To be brutally honest, it's very difficult to do high impact research AND get high scores. I'm not smart enough to do that, but maybe you are and can pull that off.
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