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IMG Residency Match Forum International Medical Graduates (IMGs) discussing the residency matching process.


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  #1  
Old 09-10-2015
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Default Is hands-on clinical experience considered as USCE?

Hello everyone!

I have been reading every thread on this matter on every forum available, but could not find a good answer. I graduated last year and have been working in one of the best university hospitals in New York City as a clinical research fellow since I graduated. I was involved in 2 major multi-central studies and several small ones, took history from hundreds of patients and did PE, attended rounds and case presentations and presented some myself, was involved in many discussions on patient care, worked closely with residents and fellows and built good relations with them, published several studies in international peer-reviewed journals (with reputations ranging from medium to very good) and presented several poster in national and international conferences, and finally got excellent LORs from 2 renowned senior professors describing all the activity above in detail. I know that most basic/clinical research experience are not considered as USCE by most programs, but since I have been dealing with patients all this time, spent a lot of time in the clinical areas, and got very good LORs explaining all these, I was wondering if this would be considered as USCE by programs. I only did 2 months of observership other than this.

I would really appreciate any contribution or comment...

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 09-12-2015
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hey, I'm pretty sure that your current experience will not be considered as USCE (as it is basically research), but since you seem to get along fine with the people at your hospital, why don't you ask for an observership there? that could be of help to you
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Old 09-12-2015
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Hey! Thank you very much for your comment.

The problem with an observership is that neither I would learn and do anything more than I've done so far nor would the professors understand why I want to do an observership, since I have been already doing it and more for a year now.
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Old 09-12-2015
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Just apply to the programs which require USCE. The only way to prove or disprove this is to apply. Nobody knows, except for PD, what activity may be seen as USCE. Again, if your overall application is strong and LORs great I would apply to low-mid tier university programs and community programs.
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Old 09-12-2015
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The kind of clinical experience you described is the kind of experience that all international medical graduates have in their applications that is called "observeriship". While this experience is not as optimal as having an elective rotation in one of the US hospitals during med school, it is still the only and the most common kind of an experience that most IMGs have and still able to match.

It is very important that you letter writers explain the kind of clinical experience you had while doing your research fellowship, and commenting positively on your clinical skills.

Program directors do not chose to take AMGs over IMGs because AMGs are smarter or more knowledgeable or will save more patients . They prefer AMGs because of two things:

1- They don't need visa. So they will start July 1st and no visa delays . It is the program director nightmare that 2 or 3 residents will not be able to make it for the July 1st because of visa issues, and this explain why US-IMG or green card holders have much higher percentage of matching despite low profiles.

2- They know what to expect from an AMG. They speak fluent english and they know their medical background and training (all US schools have more or less similar curriculum and universal evaluations). But an IMG from a country in the middle of no where and they never heard of it and do not know any thing about their medical education, that makes them hesitant to accept that IMG. This is why you will find some programs consistently taking IMGs from a specific country or school, because 2 or 3 residents from that international school did well in the past and made the PDs realize that this school is good enough to recruit residents from.

Bottom line, no matter how much you explained the kind of clinical experience you had in your application, it should be reflected in your letters, because PDs will trust the word of the US letter writer and not you
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  #6  
Old 09-12-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by one11 View Post
The kind of clinical experience you described is the kind of experience that all international medical graduates have in their applications that is called "observeriship". While this experience is not as optimal as having an elective rotation in one of the US hospitals during med school, it is still the only and the most common kind of an experience that most IMGs have and still able to match.

It is very important that you letter writers explain the kind of clinical experience you had while doing your research fellowship, and commenting positively on your clinical skills.

Program directors do not chose to take AMGs over IMGs because AMGs are smarter or more knowledgeable or will save more patients . They prefer AMGs because of two things:

1- They don't need visa. So they will start July 1st and no visa delays . It is the program director nightmare that 2 or 3 residents will not be able to make it for the July 1st because of visa issues, and this explain why US-IMG or green card holders have much higher percentage of matching despite low profiles.

2- They know what to expect from an AMG. They speak fluent english and they know their medical background and training (all US schools have more or less similar curriculum and universal evaluations). But an IMG from a country in the middle of no where and they never heard of it and do not know any thing about their medical education, that makes them hesitant to accept that IMG. This is why you will find some programs consistently taking IMGs from a specific country or school, because 2 or 3 residents from that international school did well in the past and made the PDs realize that this school is good enough to recruit residents from.

Bottom line, no matter how much you explained the kind of clinical experience you had in your application, it should be reflected in your letters, because PDs will trust the word of the US letter writer and not you
Thank you so much for the detailed explanation. All the clinical experience I had in this program is explained in very detail and the professors (who are respected and renowned ones) are willing to call the PDs themselves and explain what they've already written in the letters. Plus, I have a green card, so no visa issues here... I hope that would also be a plus for me.

Again thank you for your reply. It really helped.
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  #7  
Old 09-12-2015
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What are we supposed to write in our observership where we actually did hands on work?? Can we mention that we did all the hands on work under supervision??????
Plz reply
Thanks
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  #8  
Old 09-13-2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by one11 View Post
The kind of clinical experience you described is the kind of experience that all international medical graduates have in their applications that is called "observeriship". While this experience is not as optimal as having an elective rotation in one of the US hospitals during med school, it is still the only and the most common kind of an experience that most IMGs have and still able to match.

It is very important that you letter writers explain the kind of clinical experience you had while doing your research fellowship, and commenting positively on your clinical skills.

Program directors do not chose to take AMGs over IMGs because AMGs are smarter or more knowledgeable or will save more patients . They prefer AMGs because of two things:

1- They don't need visa. So they will start July 1st and no visa delays . It is the program director nightmare that 2 or 3 residents will not be able to make it for the July 1st because of visa issues, and this explain why US-IMG or green card holders have much higher percentage of matching despite low profiles.

2- They know what to expect from an AMG. They speak fluent english and they know their medical background and training (all US schools have more or less similar curriculum and universal evaluations). But an IMG from a country in the middle of no where and they never heard of it and do not know any thing about their medical education, that makes them hesitant to accept that IMG. This is why you will find some programs consistently taking IMGs from a specific country or school, because 2 or 3 residents from that international school did well in the past and made the PDs realize that this school is good enough to recruit residents from.

Bottom line, no matter how much you explained the kind of clinical experience you had in your application, it should be reflected in your letters, because PDs will trust the word of the US letter writer and not you
If you put pending application for permanent residency would the programs assume you're an applicant that won't have visa issues. I already have my work permit and SSN but have yet to be called for the visa interview. So I'm uncertain what to put since I won't be having visa issues but still can't put conditional green card. Any input would be much appreciated. Thanks.
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