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IMG Residency Match Forum International Medical Graduates (IMGs) discussing the residency matching process.


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  #1  
Old 04-22-2016
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Default Failed 3 years at med school, any chance ??

Hey everyone.

I wanted to get a straight answer from any one.

My situation is that i failed and repeated 3 years at med school due to family circumstances.
Then i studied hard, got good grades and graduated.

My question is, is there any chance of me matching in any program if i get high scores 250+ along with LORs and USCE.

Please guys be honest because i will decide what to do with my life based on your answers.

I just want to know if there is even a small chance.

Thanks.
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Old 04-22-2016
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I don't think it matters provided you get high scores. I met a guy who got expelled from his med school and then enrolled and graduated from a Caribbean school. His YOG was recent and his scores were 260+/250+. He got over 20 interviews. So yeah, if you do exceptionally well after you stumbled at med school, I don't see why you can't match.
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Old 04-24-2016
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Thank you so much Volkmann for your answer.

so you really think i have a chance ? and how can i explain me failing for 3 years ?

The truth was i was struggling depression and had no motivation to do anything.

Should i say that ?
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Old 04-24-2016
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I honestly don't know whether you should say that. My gut feeling is you shouldn't. Concentrate on doing well on your steps. Think about how you should explain your failure when the time comes. Good luck!!
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Old 04-24-2016
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I definitely would not say I am depressed even if it was true. One thing people are looking for during residency interviews is if you can get through residency efficiently without burnout. Physician burnout is a big deal, more so in the US. If you say you failed the exams during medical school due to depression, residency is hell of a lot more pressure. Though they will admire you for saying the truth, most will hold it against you.
Like the person above said, that is still a long way. Focus on nailing the steps.
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  #6  
Old 04-25-2016
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I think the other comments are good. Just be prepared ahead of time in your personal statement to note some of your past struggles and put something positive you learned from all that. I wouldn't put the exact word of depression in there because it can make others misinterpret you and give a false impression. You should have a few close colleagues review your personal statement to see what they feel.

You also want to be prepare ahead and be ready to answer any questions a program director will ask from your past but without the very direct detail of depression. You can try using other less negative words but stay honest and objective about the past, what you learned and how it makes you now feel and think. Practice speaking with others you trust to do mock interviews out loud but you will get there
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Old 04-25-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timexa View Post
I think the other comments are good. Just be prepared ahead of time in your personal statement to note some of your past struggles and put something positive you learned from all that. I wouldn't put the exact word of depression in there because it can make others misinterpret you and give a false impression. You should have a few close colleagues review your personal statement to see what they feel.

You also want to be prepare ahead and be ready to answer any questions a program director will ask from your past but without the very direct detail of depression. You can try using other less negative words but stay honest and objective about the past, what you learned and how it makes you now feel and think. Practice speaking with others you trust to do mock interviews out loud but you will get there

Thanks Timexa.

But what can i say, could you give me an example ?

And do you think i have a chance if i got a decent score ?
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  #8  
Old 04-26-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nerveman View Post
Thanks Timexa.

But what can i say, could you give me an example ?

And do you think i have a chance if i got a decent score ?
Decent scores will always help. Did the school actually fail you or not allow you to continue? How did they allow you to come back or even stay after that many year.

Have you taken any of the usmle steps?

I think its better to generate your own answer to the questions and have other members critique it.

Question from program director : Dr. Nerveman, your usmle scores are very good but what happened to cause you to fail 3 years of medical school?

You may answer : explain some detail of the reasons for 3 years of failure, what did you do about this to come back and what did you learn from it?
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Old 04-26-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timexa View Post
Decent scores will always help. Did the school actually fail you or not allow you to continue? How did they allow you to come back or even stay after that many year.

Have you taken any of the usmle steps?

I think its better to generate your own answer to the questions and have other members critique it.

Question from program director : Dr. Nerveman, your usmle scores are very good but what happened to cause you to fail 3 years of medical school?

You may answer : explain some detail of the reasons for 3 years of failure, what did you do about this to come back and what did you learn from it?

I was allowed to continue. i just repeated the year and took the exam again in the subjects i failed at.

I didn't take any USMLE steps. i read a looot. and was about to start studying.But a close friend of mine said to me that even with high scores it would be difficult to match because there are thousands of other students also with good scores, USCE and no medical school extension. so i kind of felt letdown and came here to ask.
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Old 04-26-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nerveman View Post
I was allowed to continue. i just repeated the year and took the exam again in the subjects i failed at.

I didn't take any USMLE steps. i read a looot. and was about to start studying.But a close friend of mine said to me that even with high scores it would be difficult to match because there are thousands of other students also with good scores, USCE and no medical school extension. so i kind of felt letdown and came here to ask.
Did you fail 1 year? Or failed 3 years? What subjects? How long is your medical school program? What country? Have you already graduated?

I would put some of the past situation behind for now to not worry as much on because you can't change that and begin focusing on getting step 1 done first! Try to get that cleared in 3-4 months by seeing the guides in the Step 1 forum. Then, slowly go and plan for the other usmle steps and then start doing the things others are doing like getting USCE and LOR's and work on your past story and personal statement and be ready for answering those tough questions.

You can try to apply next September for the 2018 match by then.

Lots of posts here on situations where you can read about on how to do those different areas but now get the usmle step 1 out of the way. You need that before you can do anything else

People have all kinds of extensions in school due to failure or something else, but they all had to keep moving on to their goal! You will do the same
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Old 04-26-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timexa View Post
Did you fail 1 year? Or failed 3 years? What subjects? How long is your medical school program? What country? Have you already graduated?

I would put some of the past situation behind for now to not worry as much on because you can't change that and begin focusing on getting step 1 done first! Try to get that cleared in 3-4 months by seeing the guides in the Step 1 forum. Then, slowly go and plan for the other usmle steps and then start doing the things others are doing like getting USCE and LOR's and work on your past story and personal statement and be ready for answering those tough questions.

You can try to apply next September for the 2018 match by then.

Lots of posts here on situations where you can read about on how to do those different areas but now get the usmle step 1 out of the way. You need that before you can do anything else

People have all kinds of extensions in school due to failure or something else, but they all had to keep moving on to their goal! You will do the same

Thanks for your kind words timexa.

My school program is 6 years and 1 year internship.
i failed 2nd year once and 3rd year twice.i am now at my final year.

I am willing to work hard, but something inside me is afraid to waste all this time and money and maybe never match because of my situation.

But i tell myself that maybe there is even a small chance.

The problem is this makes me work half hardheartedly.

Sorry for the long post.

Thanks again timexa.
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  #12  
Old 04-27-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nerveman View Post
Thanks for your kind words timexa.

My school program is 6 years and 1 year internship.
i failed 2nd year once and 3rd year twice.i am now at my final year.

I am willing to work hard, but something inside me is afraid to waste all this time and money and maybe never match because of my situation.

But i tell myself that maybe there is even a small chance.

The problem is this makes me work half hardheartedly.

Sorry for the long post.

Thanks again timexa.
Congrats on being almost done now! So keep doing the things in your country that you would work and apply for and work as a doctor there in a full heart mind.

Plan to take all the usmle in 12-14 months time schedule and at the same time while working in your country, start the usmle process and see how it goes. You will need to visit the ecfmg website to see the way to register for this and you should do that first because the process can take time. You can study for step 1 a little each week while that is going on.

You can't predict the future without starting it. That internship experience you will have in your country if you do it after you graduate will only help and better to do that while studying for this test just for a backup. Forget the school past because you are still here
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  #13  
Old 04-27-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timexa View Post
Congrats on being almost done now! So keep doing the things in your country that you would work and apply for and work as a doctor there in a full heart mind.

Plan to take all the usmle in 12-14 months time schedule and at the same time while working in your country, start the usmle process and see how it goes. You will need to visit the ecfmg website to see the way to register for this and you should do that first because the process can take time. You can study for step 1 a little each week while that is going on.

You can't predict the future without starting it. That internship experience you will have in your country if you do it after you graduate will only help and better to do that while studying for this test just for a backup. Forget the school past because you are still here
Thanks Timexa.
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  #14  
Old 05-13-2016
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Sorry, depends on total time spent in medical school.

Most state boards will not allow you to get a full license, let alone a training license if from time you enrolled to you graduated was > 7 years.

This is state specific, and you need to read the rules. I don't know if it means if you started one school, then transferred that re-starts the clock or whatever, but you're effective DOA if it takes you 7 or more years and the state board says no dice. Doesn't matter what the program states, your scores or how desperate they are. If medical board won't credential you, you're done.

You must verify this. I had a classmate that failed at one school, came to mine, made it to second year, failed, repeated, failed transferred to another school and I believe graduated, but he was definitely >7 years finishing medical school. He was at >3-4 years just for the first "2 years of medical school."
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Old 05-14-2016
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Originally Posted by Ketafol View Post
Sorry, depends on total time spent in medical school.

Most state boards will not allow you to get a full license, let alone a training license if from time you enrolled to you graduated was > 7 years.

This is state specific, and you need to read the rules. I don't know if it means if you started one school, then transferred that re-starts the clock or whatever, but you're effective DOA if it takes you 7 or more years and the state board says no dice. Doesn't matter what the program states, your scores or how desperate they are. If medical board won't credential you, you're done.

You must verify this. I had a classmate that failed at one school, came to mine, made it to second year, failed, repeated, failed transferred to another school and I believe graduated, but he was definitely >7 years finishing medical school. He was at >3-4 years just for the first "2 years of medical school."

Thanks Ketafol for that information. how can i verify this ?

I cant find any information about this online ? do you have any link about that ?
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Old 05-14-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ketafol View Post
Sorry, depends on total time spent in medical school.

Most state boards will not allow you to get a full license, let alone a training license if from time you enrolled to you graduated was > 7 years.

This is state specific, and you need to read the rules. I don't know if it means if you started one school, then transferred that re-starts the clock or whatever, but you're effective DOA if it takes you 7 or more years and the state board says no dice. Doesn't matter what the program states, your scores or how desperate they are. If medical board won't credential you, you're done.

You must verify this. I had a classmate that failed at one school, came to mine, made it to second year, failed, repeated, failed transferred to another school and I believe graduated, but he was definitely >7 years finishing medical school. He was at >3-4 years just for the first "2 years of medical school."
I don't think this is true. But I may be wrong.
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Old 05-14-2016
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Originally Posted by nerveman View Post
Thanks Ketafol for that information. how can i verify this ?

I cant find any information about this online ? do you have any link about that ?
Go to the websites of all the 50 state medical boards and read the eligibility criteria for issuing a medical license. You could also try to call the state boards and find out (good luck with that).

As far as the effect of medical school failures on the matching process for an IMG is concerned, I think it would not matter that much. However, university and university-affiliated programs might look down upon medical school failures.

You would stand a decent chance at matching at community hospitals if you have good scores and USCE.

I would do exactly what timexa has advised. Start your journey with the step 1 exam. If you can get a minimum of 220, then you do have a chance. Anything less than 220, I would not waste any more time or money on this.
However take my advise with a grain of salt.
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Old 05-14-2016
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Default Re: State Licensure 7 years

I remember when I started my clinical rotations, the preceptor told us that the clock starts once you take the first USMLE. He did say it was 7 years to complete all three steps (plus CS) in order to be eligible for state licensure. I don't think it's from when you enter medical school and if it is, there are clearly exceptions because there are programs for MD/PhD or MD/JD that take 7 years to complete (or longer if the student takes a leave of absence for pregnancy/death/extra time for dissertation). You'll have to do the research yourself OP but I think the biggest hurdle will be explaining why you failed 3 years of medical school. I spoke with a PD when starting medical school in FM and he told me that he is understanding if an applicant fails a biochemistry class their first or second semester of medical school. If they fail a clinical medicine portion of their curriculum including any rotation, the application goes straight in the trash.
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Old 05-25-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medstud. View Post
Go to the websites of all the 50 state medical boards and read the eligibility criteria for issuing a medical license. You could also try to call the state boards and find out (good luck with that).

As far as the effect of medical school failures on the matching process for an IMG is concerned, I think it would not matter that much. However, university and university-affiliated programs might look down upon medical school failures.

You would stand a decent chance at matching at community hospitals if you have good scores and USCE.

I would do exactly what timexa has advised. Start your journey with the step 1 exam. If you can get a minimum of 220, then you do have a chance. Anything less than 220, I would not waste any more time or money on this.
However take my advise with a grain of salt.
Thanks for your advice. greatly appreciated.
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Old 05-25-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bully Ball View Post
I remember when I started my clinical rotations, the preceptor told us that the clock starts once you take the first USMLE. He did say it was 7 years to complete all three steps (plus CS) in order to be eligible for state licensure. I don't think it's from when you enter medical school and if it is, there are clearly exceptions because there are programs for MD/PhD or MD/JD that take 7 years to complete (or longer if the student takes a leave of absence for pregnancy/death/extra time for dissertation). You'll have to do the research yourself OP but I think the biggest hurdle will be explaining why you failed 3 years of medical school. I spoke with a PD when starting medical school in FM and he told me that he is understanding if an applicant fails a biochemistry class their first or second semester of medical school. If they fail a clinical medicine portion of their curriculum including any rotation, the application goes straight in the trash.
Do you think this applies to IMGs ?

And what do you think is the best way to explain my medical school failure ?
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Old 05-25-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nerveman View Post
Do you think this applies to IMGs ?

And what do you think is the best way to explain my medical school failure ?
Yes, this applies to IMGs as well. Everyone has 7 years to complete 1/2cs/2ck/3. If you meet this requirement you should be eligible for licensure from at least this perspective.

I can't tell you how to explain your failure but I will say that no one except you can. If anyone gives you a bunch of lines to rehearse, at least one person at each program will be able to see through it. In all honesty, until you can come up with an acceptable answer on your own, I would hold off on applying because it is going to be the elephant in the room and you will be asked this every step of the way (including when applying for a state license, board exam application, credentialing at hospitals, etc).
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Old 05-28-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nerveman View Post
Do you think this applies to IMGs ?

And what do you think is the best way to explain my medical school failure ?
wait wait wait quick back up for a second.... why go mentioning your failures from medical school? are u IMG? i would say nothing! except its brought up in which case the chances are 0.5%. you have your diploma right? by the time you would apply you would have your ecfmg certificate. i dont see how med school failures come into play at all. maybe in MSPE thats if your school provides. i'm not saying go lie. but you have to shed yourself in the "best possible light" of which confessing your failures if you were not asked doesn't seem to help with that.
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Old 05-28-2016
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wait wait wait quick back up for a second.... why go mentioning your failures from medical school? are u IMG? i would say nothing! except its brought up in which case the chances are 0.5%. you have your diploma right? by the time you would apply you would have your ecfmg certificate. i dont see how med school failures come into play at all. maybe in MSPE thats if your school provides. i'm not saying go lie. but you have to shed yourself in the "best possible light" of which confessing your failures if you were not asked doesn't seem to help with that.
I agree. Admitting failure in medical school is like digging your own grave. I would not even bring the topic up but would be prepared for the question on the off chance that someone asks it.
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Old 05-28-2016
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Your past failure only becomes relevant if you make it so.
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Old 05-29-2016
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Default Gotta disagree with the above posters

Check out this forum for an anonymous Q&A between an IM PD and the standard questions he fields. It's old but most of the information is still applicable.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thre...thread.404764/

Sure you don't have to mention the failures and we don't know how it will appear on the transcript, but "left to my imagination, I will assume the worst." Not mentioning a failure for biochem/histology/genetics in 1 semester may be ok because it's pretty self explanatory. The question for anyone who reads your transcripts will be what happened for three years, and if you get an interview, it won't be an off-chance that someone asks, it is almost guaranteed. I stand by my initial advice of being able to have a thorough and prepared answer able to satisfy anyone who asks before you continue, but the choice is yours

These are the questions you need to anticipate according to one PD

1)What exactly created the problem / probation? If it's failing a course, that's usually straightforward. If it's a professional issue as you describe, vague answers such as "personal problems", "health issues", "family issues" are all major concerns without some detail. Left to my imagination, I will assume the worst.

2)Does this fit a pattern, or is it an anomaly? Is there a pattern of low board/shelf exam scores? Are there written comments from other rotations raising concerns about your performance?

3)Have you demonstrated a pattern/track record of improvement? I need to be CERTAIN that this is completely resolved, and will not happen again. You want to demonstrate that, put back in a similar situation, the outcome would be satisfactory.

4) Do you demonstrate insight into the problem and it's solution, and do you take full responsibility for your part? Every story has two sides, as I'm sure your's does. That being said, you need to be clear that you understand the problem, accept your role/responsibility, and have a solution to prevent further similar issues.
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Old 05-31-2016
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Don't lie about anything, especially your med school failures. There are so many things that could go wrong. Just concentrate on your USMLE exams, come up with a good explanation for your failures, and be confident on your interview.
Good luck.
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