Between FM and IM - USMLE Forums
USMLE Forums Logo
USMLE Forums         Your Reliable USMLE Online Community     Members     Posts
Home
USMLE Articles
USMLE News
USMLE Polls
USMLE Books
USMLE Apps
Go Back   USMLE Forums > IMG Residency Match Forum

IMG Residency Match Forum International Medical Graduates (IMGs) discussing the residency matching process.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-25-2012
dr.JPRizal's Avatar
USMLE Forums Guru
 
Steps History: ---
Posts: 408
Threads: 5
Thanked 260 Times in 182 Posts
Reputation: 270
Question Between FM and IM

hello guys.

I am in a dilemma (not right now but will be during ranking the programs). my aim is to do a geria fellowship, both IM and FM can attain that. at first, i wanted to be in IM but as i did interviews on both, i'm somehow beginning to fall for FM more than IM now. FM really fits me well (am kinda an outgoing, just chill, be cool, don't wanna be stressed type). plus most IM programs i have are just average, old facilities though good faculty & curriculum, while my FM are univ ones, have very new facilities, good curriculum & mentors and very good benefits/salaries.

so i wanna know more info, links or opinions about the monetary compensation/reimbursement etc. as i heard FM is 150k/yr, while IM can go as high as 250K/yr. i know "its not about the money money money", but hey i just wanna be practical this time. as iv'e drained most of my parent's savings from spending for the entire match process so i am expecting later on to spend some of my own savings for their retirement and such.

Thanks in advance.
__________________
People don't realize that victory is the child of struggle, that joy blossoms from suffering, and redemption is a product of sacrifice.

JP Rizal, MD
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message


  #2  
Old 10-25-2012
USMLE Forums Veteran
 
Steps History: 1+CK+CS
Posts: 274
Threads: 9
Thanked 336 Times in 126 Posts
Reputation: 346
Default

My FM preceptor had a huge clinic, talking about close to 10k patients!!!! The man is making over $300k a year, only in the clinic half days, pays PAs and NPs $15 per patient to see patients all day, and pockets the other $15-35, these are patients he himself isnt seeing. Plus he gets to do other stuff, serve as medical director of nursing homes, and all that, plus he's a hospitalist too...
Dont believe the hype, you can get more than $150k, cause in some cities let FM docs do hospitalist work too. Its all about you, and what you want to do. Unless you plan on doing another IM fellowship like cardio, GI or something, if you do geriatrics, you'll be making the same as a FM doc who does geriatrics.
Spend more time talking to successful FM docs WORKING IN THE USA!!
__________________
What is impossible with man, is possible with God
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

(Luke 18:27)//Not your average "Joe", so I wont fit in your box...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The above post was thanked by:
dr.JPRizal (10-25-2012)
  #3  
Old 10-25-2012
USMLE Forums Scout
 
Steps History: 1+CK+CS
Posts: 37
Threads: 2
Thanked 28 Times in 20 Posts
Reputation: 38
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.JPRizal View Post
hello guys.

I am in a dilemma (not right now but will be during ranking the programs). my aim is to do a geria fellowship, both IM and FM can attain that. at first, i wanted to be in IM but as i did interviews on both, i'm somehow beginning to fall for FM more than IM now. FM really fits me well (am kinda an outgoing, just chill, be cool, don't wanna be stressed type). plus most IM programs i have are just average, old facilities though good faculty & curriculum, while my FM are univ ones, have very new facilities, good curriculum & mentors and very good benefits/salaries.

so i wanna know more info, links or opinions about the monetary compensation/reimbursement etc. as i heard FM is 150k/yr, while IM can go as high as 250K/yr. i know "its not about the money money money", but hey i just wanna be practical this time. as iv'e drained most of my parent's savings from spending for the entire match process so i am expecting later on to spend some of my own savings for their retirement and such.

Thanks in advance.
IM cannot make 250k w/o fellowship unless they plan on seeing 50-60 patients a day. FM and IM doctors are both considered primary care so insurance companies see them as the same.
they only way a doctor can make 250k is by doing procedures. as internal medicine, i don't see how they can bill for specialist procedures like cardio, GI, ophthalmologist and other higher paid physicians do.
any procedures that IM can do(EKG, nerve testing, PVR, sonograms), FM can also do.
I have worked for billing in a medical office so i know how this works. insurance companies pay as little as $15-20 for a visit even for a specialist unless some procedures are done. This is why all the cardiologists are doing too many unnecessary angiograms, cardiac cath and all because there really isn't anyway to make that kind of money anymore.
__________________
200/210/pass/citizen/2monthUSCE/YOG 2010/matched 2013 Internal medicine
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The above post was thanked by:
dr.JPRizal (10-25-2012)
  #4  
Old 10-25-2012
USMLE Forums Veteran
 
Steps History: 1+CK+CS
Posts: 274
Threads: 9
Thanked 336 Times in 126 Posts
Reputation: 346
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tammy13 View Post
IM cannot make 250k w/o fellowship unless they plan on seeing 50-60 patients a day. FM and IM doctors are both considered primary care so insurance companies see them as the same.
they only way a doctor can make 250k is by doing procedures. as internal medicine, i don't see how they can bill for specialist procedures like cardio, GI, ophthalmologist and other higher paid physicians do.
any procedures that IM can do(EKG, nerve testing, PVR, sonograms), FM can also do.
I have worked for billing in a medical office so i know how this works. insurance companies pay as little as $15-20 for a visit even for a specialist unless some procedures are done. This is why all the cardiologists are doing too many unnecessary angiograms, cardiac cath and all because there really isn't anyway to make that kind of money anymore.
Medicare/Medicaid pays my FM preceptor $30 per patient per month whether they come into the office or not. This means that with 9500 such patients, he gets $285,000 from the govt every mth regardless. Of course overhead expenses and costs, should be considered, but one can see how lucrative it can be ultimately. We have a great working relationship and he was upfront with me, and I saw records. Many companies come weekly trying to buy his practice, which is prob 90% Medicare/Medicaid patients. Oh and he does NO procedures, and this isnt past tense, I was in his office today. For one visit a private insurance paid him $40.
He has had the clinic running for 15+ yrs, so yea he didnt start off this way, but by no means was he struggling either.
My general surgery preceptor was paid $50 per patient per general visit, and about $100-200 for more complex cases.

Reimbursement for FM is actually better than that of specialists now. I was talking to an anesthesiologist and they get reimbursed even lower nowadays, cases that would have earned them $1k from the govt 2 yrs ago, they are barely getting $300 for now.

Please one thing we should keep in mind and understand is that just because a person hasnt seen it, doesnt mean it doesnt happen, it just means you havent seen it.

Oh and I have IM hospitalist friends making $230-290k right now in different regions of the country, it all depends on where you are working, and no they do not do procedures either.

What kind of office did you work in, and when and where was it, because really they are all different based on all these different criteria.
__________________
What is impossible with man, is possible with God
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

(Luke 18:27)//Not your average "Joe", so I wont fit in your box...

Last edited by Lena; 10-25-2012 at 09:22 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old 10-25-2012
USMLE Forums Scout
 
Steps History: 1+CK+CS
Posts: 37
Threads: 2
Thanked 28 Times in 20 Posts
Reputation: 38
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lena View Post
Medicare/Medicaid pays my FM preceptor $30 per patient per month whether they come into the office or not. We have a great working relationship and he was upfront with me, and I saw records. Many companies come weekly trying to buy his practice, which is prob 90% Medicare/Medicaid patients. Oh and he does NO procedures, and this isnt past tense, I was in his office today. For one visit a private insurance paid him $40.
My general surgery preceptor was paid $50 per patient per general visit, and about $100-200 for more complex cases.

Reimbursement for FM is actually better than that of specialists now. I was talking to an anesthesiologist and they get reimbursed even lower nowadays, cases that would have earned them $1k from the govt 2 yrs ago, they are barely getting $300 for now.

Please one thing we should keep in mind and understand is that just because a person hasnt seen it, doesnt mean it doesnt happen, it just means you havent seen it.

Oh and I have IM hospitalist friends making $230-290k right now in different regions of the country, it all depends on where you are working, and no they do not do procedures either.

What kind of office did you work in, and when and where was it, because really they are all different based on all these different criteria.
Honestly I have seen medicaid pay $10 for a visit to a cardiologist, this is why VERY few doctors even accept straight medicaid. medicare is different and they pay alot better than medicaid. even with private insurances, they barely go over $50, unless its a new patient visit and even that has to be documented very elaborately. if the physican wants to get $200 from a visit, he better sit with them for an hour and get alot of information to document in the chart, because thats wat the insurance company looks at for higher bills. Private insurance companies also do frequent audits and get alot money back from doctors if they see that there is not enough documentation in the chart to justify the level of care they billed for.
on average, hospitalist make 180-190k. usually below 200k. again , some can probably make more depending on location and hospital as you mentioned.
__________________
200/210/pass/citizen/2monthUSCE/YOG 2010/matched 2013 Internal medicine
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The above post was thanked by:
Lena (10-25-2012)
  #6  
Old 10-25-2012
USMLE Forums Veteran
 
Steps History: 1+CK+CS
Posts: 274
Threads: 9
Thanked 336 Times in 126 Posts
Reputation: 346
Default



some FM resident posted this on sdn back in April, a job offer.
Of cause this is rural medicine, but some can even work out something where they work 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off in 1 mth!
__________________
What is impossible with man, is possible with God
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

(Luke 18:27)//Not your average "Joe", so I wont fit in your box...

Last edited by Lena; 10-25-2012 at 09:40 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7  
Old 10-25-2012
USMLE Forums Veteran
 
Steps History: 1+CK+CS
Posts: 274
Threads: 9
Thanked 336 Times in 126 Posts
Reputation: 346
Default

This other job offer in Mississippi (30 mins from New Orleans) involves some work but you'll get paid!

http://www.physemp.com/physician_job...gn=SimplyHired
__________________
What is impossible with man, is possible with God
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

(Luke 18:27)//Not your average "Joe", so I wont fit in your box...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old 10-25-2012
dr.JPRizal's Avatar
USMLE Forums Guru
 
Steps History: ---
Posts: 408
Threads: 5
Thanked 260 Times in 182 Posts
Reputation: 270
Default

[QUOTE=Lena;157550]This other job offer in Mississippi (30 mins from New Orleans) involves some work but you'll get paid!



saw the link. very sweeet. it must have been take by now though.

well thanks for the info guys.. im really beginning to lean more & more to FM now.
__________________
People don't realize that victory is the child of struggle, that joy blossoms from suffering, and redemption is a product of sacrifice.

JP Rizal, MD
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9  
Old 10-25-2012
USMLE Forums Veteran
 
Steps History: 1+CK+CS
Posts: 274
Threads: 9
Thanked 336 Times in 126 Posts
Reputation: 346
Default

[QUOTE=dr.JPRizal;157553]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lena View Post
This other job offer in Mississippi (30 mins from New Orleans) involves some work but you'll get paid!



saw the link. very sweeet. it must have been take by now though.

well thanks for the info guys.. im really beginning to lean more & more to FM now.
You can always work locums too, but feel free to search for future jobs here, while awaiting the ERAS outcome.

http://www.mdsearch.com/home/physician-job-search
__________________
What is impossible with man, is possible with God
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

(Luke 18:27)//Not your average "Joe", so I wont fit in your box...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The above post was thanked by:
dr.JPRizal (10-25-2012)



Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the USMLE Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:
Medical School
Choose "---" if you don't want to tell. AMG for US & Canadian medical schools. IMG for all other medical schools.
USMLE Steps History
What steps finished! Example: 1+CK+CS+3 = Passed Step 1, Step 2 CK, Step 2 CS, and Step 3.

Choose "---" if you don't want to tell.

Favorite USMLE Books
What USMLE books you really think are useful. Leave blank if you don't want to tell.
Location
Where you live. Leave blank if you don't want to tell.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


RSS Feed
Find Us on Facebook
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

USMLE® & other trade marks belong to their respective owners, read full disclaimer
USMLE Forums created under Creative Commons 3.0 License. (2009-2014)