No More IMGs for Residency Training Programs After 2015, Says Journal of American Medical Association - USMLE Forums
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IMG Residency Match Forum International Medical Graduates (IMGs) discussing the residency matching process.


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  #1  
Old 01-27-2013
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Warning! No More IMGs for Residency Training Programs After 2015, Says Journal of American Medical Association

So, it 's getting more difficult now ,, could anyone explain this, please?
thanks
http://www.medicalopedia.org/3946/no...t=1#noredirect

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article....200#qundefined
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  #2  
Old 01-27-2013
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STOP

This is not true..Even here in the U.S they are facing a shortage of 10,000 physicians by 2015 in all primary care specialties (that is MI, Family medicine, Peds, General Surgery and Ob/GYN)
and NO the number of new U.S allopathics and D.O that are opening cant match this strepitous shortage either.

There are 2 important reasons for this.

1- Medicine in the U.S is gonna face a change in almost its entire system, the system is doomed to collapse because medicine here its extremely expensive.

2- A lot of dudes enter medicine because of the money.. well both obama care and the economical horrible times we are facing right now are changing the mindset of new medical students.

In summary this is not true and I dont give a **** if conrad fischer said so, I have talked with numerous immigration lawyers and everybody agrees that the physician shortage is worse than to people would want to admit
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  #3  
Old 01-27-2013
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well, IMO it could be true or it couldn't be. it's just a prediction, it can change in a heartbeat.

also IMO, the upcoming physician shortage has nothing to do with this dilemma. the problem is about the number of US & osteopathic grads compared to the number of residency positions. which is foretold that the former will outnumber the latter in 2015 and that which makes it very hard for IMGs to match. so regardless if there's a shortages or not, if indeed the said discrepancy would happen (which i don't like also), then it would definitely impact IMGs the most.

there's a lot of countries with physician shortages, but it doesn't mean its easy to get into residency in that place. and that's why IMO problem is not affected so much on shortages.

just an opinion. i hate politics, don't wanna delve more on this. ;p
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Old 01-28-2013
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as usual I agree with JPRizal, the issue is not the physician shortage, but the fact that GME spots are not increasing in number that much compared to the number of US allopathic and osteopathic graduates.
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The congress is getting pressured to approve a law that will increase residency positions by 6,000. So physician shortage DOES have something to do and will affect in the long run, obviously until they approve that law getting into residency will be harder.

That other countries including my own have physician shortage doesnt have anything to do. Americans here are used to easy stuff, they arent used to hard times like Mexico, India, Pakistan etc etc etc. here if something goes wrong and its affecting the majorities they will do something about it.

And this comes from residents, medical students and lawyers I have talked to here in the U.S, I also believed that we IMG's were doomed, but the opposite holds true.
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Old 01-28-2013
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i see.. that's nice to know, increase in 6k would be great. i hope it gets approve.:sorry:

no, we are not doomed man. just think positive. we will prevail, we will survive.

IMGs what's your profession!!!!? ahuuu!! ahuuu!! ahuuu!!
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Old 01-29-2013
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I hate politics as well, I truly believe no matter what IMG's will still find a place in the healthcare system. It is possible the criteria and scoring may continue to trend upward but that is nothing new. I always choose to believe if you had the dream of medicine and work really hard it doesnt matter where you are from you will find a way in and practice. "The cream rises to the top"!!!
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Old 02-01-2013
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Damn this is really horrible news, I'm doomed if this turns out to be true. I'm in the beginning of my step 2 ck preparation and I wont get ECFMG certified until next year which means that 2015 is my last and only chance to get into residency. Damn, the ECFMG certificate wont be worth a roll of toilet paper after 2015
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Old 02-01-2013
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Default And the question to be asked

If u have a younger brother who is asking u about registering to ecfmg site to start the journey to usa
What Will u tell him honestly
( forget about it or go on )
Specially to those always posting ( no more hope)
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Old 02-01-2013
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Originally Posted by alanine40 View Post
If u have a younger brother who is asking u about registering to ecfmg site to start the journey to usa
What Will u tell him honestly
( forget about it or go on )
Specially to those always posting ( no more hope)
I would say no, because of this and this and this. name all the reasons and push him to be a doctor in Canada, apply to US medical schools and than DO schools than Dentistry.

If my brother was in a different country I would tell him is a closed road ahead, FORGET ABOUT IT
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Old 02-01-2013
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So guys to make this clear for current IMGs, according to this article the LAST DEADLINE for all IMGs to apply and get accepted into residency programs is if they submit all the required documents and complete the ECFMG certification process before september 2014 am I right


Plz reply back...
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Old 02-02-2013
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Originally Posted by r0ck_s0lid View Post
So guys to make this clear for current IMGs, according to this article the LAST DEADLINE for all IMGs to apply and get accepted into residency programs is if they submit all the required documents and complete the ECFMG certification process before september 2014 am I right


Plz reply back...
This is not true. I have spoken to many PD's, the bottom line is there are more new AMG/DO programs in the states now so there are more candidates applying to match every year so there are less spots available for everyone. With that being said it does not mean that IMG's will not be able to match, it just means it will continue to be competitive which it already is. The doors will not close, PD's will just be looking for candidates with higher scores and more well rounded applications. I would not rush things to try to match in 2014 etc. and risk screwing up your board exams because of one uncertain JAMA article. If you have solid CV and good scores you will find a place. If your scores are not good then it will be harder to match, so moral of the story is get the scores up!!!
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Originally Posted by Kas123 View Post
This is not true. I have spoken to many PD's, the bottom line is there are more new AMG/DO programs in the states now so there are more candidates applying to match every year so there are less spots available for everyone. With that being said it does not mean that IMG's will not be able to match, it just means it will continue to be competitive which it already is. The doors will not close, PD's will just be looking for candidates with higher scores and more well rounded applications. I would not rush things to try to match in 2014 etc. and risk screwing up your board exams because of one uncertain JAMA article. If you have solid CV and good scores you will find a place. If your scores are not good then it will be harder to match, so moral of the story is get the scores up!!!
A meaningful point indeed....
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Old 02-03-2013
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Originally Posted by Kas123 View Post
This is not true. I have spoken to many PD's, the bottom line is there are more new AMG/DO programs in the states now so there are more candidates applying to match every year so there are less spots available for everyone. With that being said it does not mean that IMG's will not be able to match, it just means it will continue to be competitive which it already is. The doors will not close, PD's will just be looking for candidates with higher scores and more well rounded applications. I would not rush things to try to match in 2014 etc. and risk screwing up your board exams because of one uncertain JAMA article. If you have solid CV and good scores you will find a place. If your scores are not good then it will be harder to match, so moral of the story is get the scores up!!!
Thank you very much for your reply
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Old 02-03-2013
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Default Be realistic!!!

People who replied to this thread were either optimistic living their dreams or pessimistic spreading doom in the IMGs community. I think we need to be realistic when we deal with such critical piece of information. Optimistic people always support their arguments by 3 classical evidences: a previous story of an IMG with low score, 2nd attempt, no USCE, old grade or any other factor that can ruin an application profile, who managed to find a residency spot in the previous years. The other claim is that AMG will not accept to work in low profile programs with lot of scut work( NOT true, I have seen AMG attending below average programs in NYC). Lastly, optimistic always refer to the shortage in the PCP in US. Well, All claims are not valid in today's residency market. IMG applicant are exponentially increasing in numbers with better and better profiles (higher scores, research work, USCE rotations). All these applicants will compete for less number of positions as the AMGs are increasing year after year according to the article. The shortage in PCP currently has NO effect on residency spots so far! Residency spot allocation is only approved by the US congress and financed by CMS(agency of Medicare and Medicaid). Given the current economical situation in the US and the recent changes to reduce CMS spending according to ACA (Obama care), it is less likely to add any additional residency spots to the system.
One more factor that added more challenge is the abolishing prematch concept. This year applicants received significantly less interviews than last year as there was limited prematch programs. (No prematchers,less withdrawal from ERAS ,Less IV spots!).
Now, After all, will we see any IMG in US after 2015? Why not! The only thing that everyone need to understand before deciding to go through that long journey is to avoid the application killers. By killers I mean that there will be no tolerance for any low scores,2nd attempt, old grads with no significant work history, bad English or heavy accent. Remember that connections can do magic, put heavy emphasis on them.
The pursuit of a residency spot in US is very demanding. A lot of time, money, and nerves. However, it is very rewarding once you secure one. To be realistic, there is always a hope to reach the gold, but it will become significantly more difficult year after year. Remember, no mistakes will be tolerable. Good luck for everyone.
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Old 02-03-2013
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Originally Posted by housemd View Post
People who replied to this thread were either optimistic living their dreams or pessimistic spreading doom in the IMGs community. I think we need to be realistic when we deal with such critical piece of information. Optimistic people always support their arguments by 3 classical evidences: a previous story of an IMG with low score, 2nd attempt, no USCE, old grade or any other factor that can ruin an application profile, who managed to find a residency spot in the previous years. The other claim is that AMG will not accept to work in low profile programs with lot of scut work( NOT true, I have seen AMG attending below average programs in NYC). Lastly, optimistic always refer to the shortage in the PCP in US. Well, All claims are not valid in today's residency market. IMG applicant are exponentially increasing in numbers with better and better profiles (higher scores, research work, USCE rotations). All these applicants will compete for less number of positions as the AMGs are increasing year after year according to the article. The shortage in PCP currently has NO effect on residency spots so far! Residency spot allocation is only approved by the US congress and financed by CMS(agency of Medicare and Medicaid). Given the current economical situation in the US and the recent changes to reduce CMS spending according to ACA (Obama care), it is less likely to add any additional residency spots to the system.
One more factor that added more challenge is the abolishing prematch concept. This year applicants received significantly less interviews than last year as there was limited prematch programs. (No prematchers,less withdrawal from ERAS ,Less IV spots!).
Now, After all, will we see any IMG in US after 2015? Why not! The only thing that everyone need to understand before deciding to go through that long journey is to avoid the application killers. By killers I mean that there will be no tolerance for any low scores,2nd attempt, old grads with no significant work history, bad English or heavy accent. Remember that connections can do magic, put heavy emphasis on them.
The pursuit of a residency spot in US is very demanding. A lot of time, money, and nerves. However, it is very rewarding once you secure one. To be realistic, there is always a hope to reach the gold, but it will become significantly more difficult year after year. Remember, no mistakes will be tolerable. Good luck for everyone.
This long post is basically what me and KAS have said... your generalization to all the replies of this thread is wrong
I dont know where you are from but the zero tolerance to 2nd attempts and all the bla bla you put is wrong because there isnt a zero tolerance, probably a really low one but zero is to far fetched.

The congress already has the motion to add extra residency spots, are they gonna do it tomorrow? NO. Are they gonna do it in the next 4 years? probably not

Your well educated post lost a lot of essence by generalizing and repeating what 2 people have said in this thread, next time be specific and dont try to look like the all mighty
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Old 02-03-2013
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Default easy man

Quote:
Originally Posted by XpaezX View Post
STOP

This is not true..Even here in the U.S they are facing a shortage of 10,000 physicians by 2015 in all primary care specialties (that is MI, Family medicine, Peds, General Surgery and Ob/GYN)
and NO the number of new U.S allopathics and D.O that are opening cant match this strepitous shortage either.

There are 2 important reasons for this.

1- Medicine in the U.S is gonna face a change in almost its entire system, the system is doomed to collapse because medicine here its extremely expensive.

2- A lot of dudes enter medicine because of the money.. well both obama care and the economical horrible times we are facing right now are changing the mindset of new medical students.

In summary this is not true and I dont give a **** if conrad fischer said so, I have talked with numerous immigration lawyers and everybody agrees that the physician shortage is worse than to people would want to admit
We may have shared some vision, that doesn't mean that I copied your or anybody's idea! You need to know that physicians in this country are well lobbied. They will not allow significant reduction in current reimbursements for the sake to bring the health cost down. The bill to increase the residency spots were sitting on the congress table for 2 years, no one can predict when they gonna pass it, if they decided so! The US health system is well maintained. Yes, there are a lot of downsides but it still better than all health systems that all IMGs are coming from. If it is that bad and collapsing, why the fierce competition from all IMGs in the first place. Please have a wider vision and do not construct your stand on one arguable clue.

Regarding the second attempt, I personally know a lot of people who secured handful interviews this year. Will this be plausible if you are competing with more AMGs and higher profile IMGs over the next few years?? I personally don't believe so.

Some tolerance to other people's thoughts would be nice in this forum. All free discussions are welcomed from my side.
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Old 02-03-2013
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Originally Posted by housemd View Post
We may have shared some vision, that doesn't mean that I copied your or anybody's idea! You need to know that physicians in this country are well lobbied. They will not allow significant reduction in current reimbursements for the sake to bring the health cost down. The bill to increase the residency spots were sitting on the congress table for 2 years, no one can predict when they gonna pass it, if they decided so! The US health system is well maintained. Yes, there are a lot of downsides but it still better than all health systems that all IMGs are coming from. If it is that bad and collapsing, why the fierce competition from all IMGs in the first place. Please have a wider vision and do not construct your stand on one arguable clue.

Regarding the second attempt, I personally know a lot of people who secured handful interviews this year. Will this be plausible if you are competing with more AMGs and higher profile IMGs over the next few years?? I personally don't believe so.

Some tolerance to other people's thoughts would be nice in this forum. All free discussions are welcomed from my side.
Ok man im sorry if I sounded to harsh.
I know that physicians like to be reimbursed, I have an uncle here that is an Ophthalmologist and the new administration is starting to cause havoc in Physician's salaries, however I have also talked to several residents and attendings and all agree that eventho the IMG route right now is tougher than ever, in some years it will stabilize because of all the stuff we have been commenting here.

But what everyone must understand is what basically you said.. want to get in? be competitive. Thats it..
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Default So true

Quote:
Originally Posted by XpaezX View Post
Ok man im sorry if I sounded to harsh.
I know that physicians like to be reimbursed, I have an uncle here that is an Ophthalmologist and the new administration is starting to cause havoc in Physician's salaries, however I have also talked to several residents and attendings and all agree that eventho the IMG route right now is tougher than ever, in some years it will stabilize because of all the stuff we have been commenting here.

But what everyone must understand is what basically you said.. want to get in? be competitive. Thats it..
I appreciate your comments. As you have said: if you want to get in, be as competitive as you can and good luck!
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Old 02-04-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by housemd View Post
People who replied to this thread were either optimistic living their dreams or pessimistic spreading doom in the IMGs community. I think we need to be realistic when we deal with such critical piece of information. Optimistic people always support their arguments by 3 classical evidences: a previous story of an IMG with low score, 2nd attempt, no USCE, old grade or any other factor that can ruin an application profile, who managed to find a residency spot in the previous years. The other claim is that AMG will not accept to work in low profile programs with lot of scut work( NOT true, I have seen AMG attending below average programs in NYC). Lastly, optimistic always refer to the shortage in the PCP in US. Well, All claims are not valid in today's residency market. IMG applicant are exponentially increasing in numbers with better and better profiles (higher scores, research work, USCE rotations). All these applicants will compete for less number of positions as the AMGs are increasing year after year according to the article. The shortage in PCP currently has NO effect on residency spots so far! Residency spot allocation is only approved by the US congress and financed by CMS(agency of Medicare and Medicaid). Given the current economical situation in the US and the recent changes to reduce CMS spending according to ACA (Obama care), it is less likely to add any additional residency spots to the system.
One more factor that added more challenge is the abolishing prematch concept. This year applicants received significantly less interviews than last year as there was limited prematch programs. (No prematchers,less withdrawal from ERAS ,Less IV spots!).
Now, After all, will we see any IMG in US after 2015? Why not! The only thing that everyone need to understand before deciding to go through that long journey is to avoid the application killers. By killers I mean that there will be no tolerance for any low scores,2nd attempt, old grads with no significant work history, bad English or heavy accent. Remember that connections can do magic, put heavy emphasis on them.
The pursuit of a residency spot in US is very demanding. A lot of time, money, and nerves. However, it is very rewarding once you secure one. To be realistic, there is always a hope to reach the gold, but it will become significantly more difficult year after year. Remember, no mistakes will be tolerable. Good luck for everyone.
Well written and mirriors my earlier sentiments "get your scores up"!!! The days of IMG's matching with 205's etc are over. Many of my colleagues scored some serious step numbers and interviewed at awesome places this year, however the kids with low scores really didn't get much at all.
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Old 02-04-2013
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what is considered a low score?
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what is considered a low score?
I would guess anything below 220 for IM. This is only my opinion so don't flame me for it
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Hey,I have sent an email to NBME about this issue (by 2015 no more IMG) and today they answered me that its just rumors..... so hope this will help
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Old 02-04-2013
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Default This answer is expected from them

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Originally Posted by md-2011 View Post
Hey,I have sent an email to NBME about this issue (by 2015 no more IMG) and today they answered me that its just rumors..... so hope this will help
They ll not stop accepting applications
It s about the competitions is harder and harder
There is no rule will be brought to prevent accepting img because this is considered discrimination
So that answer from nrmp has no great value
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Old 09-09-2013
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They ll not stop accepting applications
It s about the competitions is harder and harder
There is no rule will be brought to prevent accepting img because this is considered discrimination
So that answer from nrmp has no great value
I don't think that they will consider it as discrimination. Because in Canada only less than 1% (correct me if Im wrong) of IMG's secure residencies.
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Old 09-09-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.JPRizal View Post
well, IMO it could be true or it couldn't be. it's just a prediction, it can change in a heartbeat.

also IMO, the upcoming physician shortage has nothing to do with this dilemma. the problem is about the number of US & osteopathic grads compared to the number of residency positions. which is foretold that the former will outnumber the latter in 2015 and that which makes it very hard for IMGs to match. so regardless if there's a shortages or not, if indeed the said discrepancy would happen (which i don't like also), then it would definitely impact IMGs the most.

there's a lot of countries with physician shortages, but it doesn't mean its easy to get into residency in that place. and that's why IMO problem is not affected so much on shortages.

just an opinion. i hate politics, don't wanna delve more on this. ;p

Thank You for your response. I agree with You, Dr.JPRizal - Yeshia
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Old 09-10-2013
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Well,

I think those numbers are a little bit exaggerated.. I'm saying that based on the aamc data regarding the med school enrollment projection.. Table 1 of the following document..

https://www.aamc.org/download/281126...llment2012.pdf

Based on that, we will be facing a competition of something around 19k AMGs this year, minus about 6% that goes unmatched on average each year.. By 2015, this number will increase to 19.5K and so forth until 2020 it will reach about 21K (remember that those numbers are referring to first year med school enrollment)..

Hence, I think there's some sort of exaggeration in the projections of the jama paper, which is good, because it creates some pressure on the congress so they can open more residency spots.. But there's no way US can create all of the sudden 10K med school spots..
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  #28  
Old 01-24-2014
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Default Relax.

If someone is still following this thread I would just like to add on that the JAMA article is (choosing my words carefully) "obnoxiously exaggerating" things, just like cearamor pointed out.

How can I say? Well it's 5 AM in the morning and out of utter joblessness I've spent the past 3 hours doing maths and statistics and playing with numbers (and I believe I'm pretty good at it). I might post in a detailed analysis some time later (as I obviously don't have the energy to type right now, don't even ask!). But I would certainly point out the bottomline - I wouldn't predict any drastic changes in the prospects of an average IMG (in the coming few years atleast) based on this specific factor of increasing American graduates. Other factors (like inflow of Caribbean grads) may/may not change as it varies every year but nothing drastic is going to happen.

The very specific 2015-2016 doomsday predictions seem to be deliberately glorified to cause panic and unrest. My advice to anyone reading this would be to stop reading right now, grab those sodding books and nail this thing! Good luck!
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  #29  
Old 01-24-2014
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If you go by the statistics ,, then its for sure nothing drastic is gonna happen . But what I fear about is the POLTICS !!
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