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USCE & Clinical Rotations IMG discussions of United States Clinical Experience (USCE), clinical rotations, clerkships, externships, observerships, electives, and internships.


View Poll Results: Do you think it's necessary for IMG to pay for hands-on externships?
Yes 28
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  #1  
Old 02-11-2010
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Dollar Sign Should we pay for the Externships companies?

Sorry to say this
All paid externships programs are just waste of money
Everything can be done for FREE with simple connections

Why should we pay thousands of dollars to these people!! I don't understand it
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  #2  
Old 02-12-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkKnight View Post
Sorry to say this
All paid externships programs are just waste of money
Everything can be done for FREE with simple connections

Why should we pay thousands of dollars to these people!! I don't understand it
This is absolutely not true. Having any type of patient interaction without medical liability coverage is illegal. Residency programs all have different views on the type if clinical training they will accept so I am not saying that all of them will view your training this way. I have had Doctors that have gone to interviews and were sent away because the program director accused them of illegal practices. I have heard this numerous times in my years of experience in this field.

Some cases, depending on the level of "training" you participate in you can be accused of practicing medicine without a licence which is a federal offense and punishable by prison time.

Putting your future licencing at risk seems to be a very bad choice and I don't need to recommend against this since it is so clear already

Our paid program has goals and objectives that must be met throughout your rotations and you will be clinically evaluated and graded on multiple points at the end of your rotations. You are also covered by medical liability coverage. I hope that this helps you understand a little better
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Old 02-12-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeriClerkships View Post
This is absolutely not true. Having any type of patient interaction without medical liability coverage is illegal. Residency programs all have different views on the type if clinical training they will accept so I am not saying that all of them will view your training this way. I have had Doctors that have gone to interviews and were sent away because the program director accused them of illegal practices. I have heard this numerous times in my years of experience in this field.

Some cases, depending on the level of "training" you participate in you can be accused of practicing medicine without a licence which is a federal offense and punishable by prison time.

Putting your future licensing at risk seems to be a very bad choice and I don't need to recommend against this since it is so clear already

Our paid program has goals and objectives that must be met throughout your rotations and you will be clinically evaluated and graded on multiple points at the end of your rotations. You are also covered by medical liability coverage. I hope that this helps you understand a little better
I did not say that we should do hands-on externships without liability coverage! I am not aware of any clinic/physician who's putting his career at risk by letting students touch his/her patients without liability coverage.
All am saying is that we can get into these training positions if we have the connection and no need for the mediator. This way we will save lots of money. Don't you agree
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  #4  
Old 02-12-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkKnight View Post
I did not say that we should do hands-on externships without liability coverage! I am not aware of any clinic/physician who's putting his career at risk by letting students touch his/her patients without liability coverage.
All am saying is that we can get into these training positions if we have the connection and no need for the mediator. This way we will save lots of money. Don't you agree
Physicians have medical malpractice insurance, not specific liability insurance for international medical grads. You will not fall under the category of their coverage because you are not a student you are a graduate and not licensed in the US. You must have a very specific type of coverage for those who are pre residency and post graduation
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  #5  
Old 02-12-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkKnight View Post
I did not say that we should do hands-on externships without liability coverage! I am not aware of any clinic/physician who's putting his career at risk by letting students touch his/her patients without liability coverage.
All am saying is that we can get into these training positions if we have the connection and no need for the mediator. This way we will save lots of money. Don't you agree
I disagree with you DarkKnight.

Yes, you can get some hands-on experience for free if you have the connections. But these service providers (Americlerkships and others) will make sure to put you in a place that's right for you.
They will study your profile and see which training is the best for you to boost your matching chances.

After all, you cannot give money to the attending physician that you have connection with. And when there's no money he/she will never take the matters seriously. Also as Molly said, they have speciall clinical evaluation forms and system that need to be followed and this is not going to be seen or done when you just visit your friend's clinic even if you do hands-on with him/her.

Moreover, hundreds and thousands of IMGs are coming to US every year. Most of these do not have any connections with US doctors and they are not aware of how things are going on here. Americlerkships and others will make their life easier and provide them the shortcut towards a better candidate's profile.
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  #6  
Old 02-12-2010
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Default Both are options

This is just like buying a new house.

Do you want to take the headache yourself and go and search street by street and take weeks and months until you find one? Go and do it.

Or if you have the money, just call the Realtor and they'll luxuriously find you the right house with a simple telephone call.
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  #7  
Old 02-12-2010
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Let's see where the poll is leading us.

I have ApplicantGuide putting a thanks on my post
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  #8  
Old 02-12-2010
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Default Who is your source of information

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkKnight View Post
Let's see where the poll is leading us.

I have ApplicantGuide putting a thanks on my post
The question here is will you rely on advice from those who specialize in getting IMG's into residency and have worked with COUNTLESS IMG applicants and have also had direct contact with hundreds of programs over the years, or will you rely on the advise from someone (who is no doubt intelligent and I am sure very eager to help) who has undoubtedly FAR less exposure to this application process?

Something to think about
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  #9  
Old 02-12-2010
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Hey DarkKnight,

Let me tell you my personal experience with this issue.

I came to USA three years ago. I am an old IMG grad. I had high USMLE scores both over 95. I did research. I did over 6 months observerships and I applied last year. I got only 2 interviews!

This year, I did hands-on 3 months and also 3 months research. I got 9 interviews!

Both years, it's same me, same PS, same specialties applied, same number of programs applied, same ...etc

So from my personal experience I think what got me the interviews this year is the hands-on.

PDs want to make sure that you as an IMG has the ability to deal with the American patient without making problems. In fact, the main issue with IMGs is that PDs are not sure of their attitudes and clinical skills and therefore they steer away from them but if they see that the IMG has a recognized USCE then they will be much more comfortable.

I know that FREE things are always better and we strive to get things done for free but sometimes paying some fees will save your career and life.

Think of it this way, paying $10,000 to get the three months hands-on externship will save you $50,000 plus of wasting another year without residency!
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  #10  
Old 06-09-2010
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Unhappy It's not easy

In my personal experience, I could not find any physician willing to let me get a hands-on experience despite the extensive connections that I have!

I think ultimately we have to pay the bill
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  #11  
Old 10-13-2010
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Warning!

It's very important to purchase hands-on externship specially for old grads. It's the only way to get into residency.
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  #12  
Old 10-13-2010
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Something that is interesting to me is that during medical school.....you pay for your cores and electives correct? I dont understand why this is different once you have completed your schooling
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  #13  
Old 10-15-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeriClerkships View Post
Something that is interesting to me is that during medical school.....you pay for your cores and electives correct? I dont understand why this is different once you have completed your schooling
this is because we cannot get our degree without electives and core rotations but we can get residencies without paying for externships.
I think you have to agree that if something can be done for free then it's always the best option
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  #14  
Old 10-15-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkKnight View Post
this is because we cannot get our degree without electives and core rotations but we can get residencies without paying for externships.
I think you have to agree that if something can be done for free then it's always the best option
No I do not agree. Without proper insurance coverage you are not legally allowed to interact with patients, just like you wouldn't be allowed to drive a car without insurance, plus...as many have found already it IS a requirement of many residency programs already and this number continues to rise every year.
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  #15  
Old 10-15-2010
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeriClerkships View Post
No I do not agree. Without proper insurance coverage you are not legally allowed to interact with patients, just like you wouldn't be allowed to drive a car without insurance, plus...as many have found already it IS a requirement of many residency programs already and this number continues to rise every year.
OK. You are right I give up.
Here's what I will do
I will pay the liability insurance myself and find a hands-on experience via connection.
This way I will be saving $$$
Do you agree with my new plan
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  #16  
Old 10-19-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkKnight View Post
OK. You are right I give up.
Here's what I will do
I will pay the liability insurance myself and find a hands-on experience via connection.
This way I will be saving $$$
Do you agree with my new plan
haha!!! If you are able to find this coverage that is specific for GRADUATES and not students sure. We have had many in the past think they can get this coverage on their own but they always submit to us student insurance, which is obviously the same as not having any coverage at all since they are not students
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Old 10-19-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeriClerkships View Post
haha!!! If you are able to find this coverage that is specific for GRADUATES and not students sure. We have had many in the past think they can get this coverage on their own but they always submit to us student insurance, which is obviously the same as not having any coverage at all since they are not students
I spoke with these people http://www.equotemd.com/ and they assured me that they do cover International Medical Graduates for hands-on pre-residency training and their rate is $1500 for 12 months of coverage.
I will be searching for others with lower rates and I'll keep you posted
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  #18  
Old 10-19-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkKnight View Post
I spoke with these people http://www.equotemd.com/ and they assured me that they do cover International Medical Graduates for hands-on pre-residency training and their rate is $1500 for 12 months of coverage.
I will be searching for others with lower rates and I'll keep you posted
I will look into this site and let you know my feedback on it. This is only one step in your process, you need to also be able to have a structured teaching environment with goals and objectives and clinical evaluations to show how well you do. Just following a doctor through their day is not enough to satisfy clinical training
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Old 10-21-2010
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Ok so for the sake of time here, what section do I go to where it shows medical liability insurance? This looks like malpractice insurance....if you arent licensed you certainly shouldnt be practicing medicine
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Old 10-22-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeriClerkships View Post
Ok so for the sake of time here, what section do I go to where it shows medical liability insurance? This looks like malpractice insurance....if you arent licensed you certainly shouldnt be practicing medicine
Just for clarification sake... I spoke with someone through equoteMD (http://www.equotemd.com) and medical malpractice insurance and medical liability insurance are the same thing.

I have checked around myself for medical externship coverage and it seems like $1500 is the average rate. Keep me posted if you find something cheaper.
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  #21  
Old 10-22-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ic3man View Post
Just for clarification sake... I spoke with someone through equoteMD (http://www.equotemd.com) and medical malpractice insurance and medical liability insurance are the same thing.

I have checked around myself for medical externship coverage and it seems like $1500 is the average rate. Keep me posted if you find something cheaper.
no this is incorrect. I suggest speaking with one of the state medical boards and not the insurance company, this is bad information
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Old 01-20-2011
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molly how much does americlerkship charges for 3 - 6 months of externships plz let me know my email ricko335@student.liu.se
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  #23  
Old 12-18-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaJeeK View Post
Hey DarkKnight,

Let me tell you my personal experience with this issue.

I came to USA three years ago. I am an old IMG grad. I had high USMLE scores both over 95. I did research. I did over 6 months observerships and I applied last year. I got only 2 interviews!

This year, I did hands-on 3 months and also 3 months research. I got 9 interviews!

Both years, it's same me, same PS, same specialties applied, same number of programs applied, same ...etc

So from my personal experience I think what got me the interviews this year is the hands-on.

PDs want to make sure that you as an IMG has the ability to deal with the American patient without making problems. In fact, the main issue with IMGs is that PDs are not sure of their attitudes and clinical skills and therefore they steer away from them but if they see that the IMG has a recognized USCE then they will be much more comfortable.

I know that FREE things are always better and we strive to get things done for free but sometimes paying some fees will save your career and life.

Think of it this way, paying $10,000 to get the three months hands-on externship will save you $50,000 plus of wasting another year without residency!
Have you tried any of the paid externship companies ? and if so which 1 ? can u list your experience, would be very grateful for that ! thanks in advance
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  #24  
Old 12-18-2011
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You can find more information here:

Paid Externships for IMGs
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