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USCE & Clinical Rotations IMG discussions of United States Clinical Experience (USCE), clinical rotations, clerkships, externships, observerships, electives, and internships.


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  #1  
Old 12-16-2011
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Question Electives few months before graduation!

hi
I'm doing my final year med school in India (internship) and I will finish in march 2012.
Is there any way I can apply for an elective now.

Would they accept my application?
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  #2  
Old 12-17-2011
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You can take an extension (basically, put your internship on hold and delay your graduation) and then apply. You can finish your internship after you return from your elective.

I think that's what a lot of people do.

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Old 12-17-2011
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u have to be a student at the time of doing the elective.
if u apply now in dec 2011, would you get an elective before march 2012? i doubt it. As said above, its true, if ur graduation date were to get postponed, you'd still be a student.
As far as I know, elective applications have to be done 6 months in advance atleast and they dont give you a decision for atleast 2 months. So u'd have to bunk a LOT of internship wouldnt you?
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Old 12-18-2011
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ya didn't think so.... are observerships a good option when do we have to apply for that????
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  #5  
Old 12-18-2011
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Question Delaying Graduation - Is it a good option?

In Maharashtra, the MUHS issues degrees only once a year, so if I complete my internship any time after May 2012, I'm only eligible to get my degree in May 2013. That's a one year gap, but it's before graduation. As the date on the degree is considered graduation in the US, one should technically be able to do electives before that . Also, I'll have my step1 score by March and can apply to places which need the step1 score, thus improving my chances (I'd applied for electives earlier, in my final MBBS, but couldn't get any). Also during this year, I could finish off the other steps comfortably (I'll be in a time crunch to complete Steps 1, 2CK, 2CS before September 2012) and can also get a step3 score by 2013. Technically I'll be a fresh graduate in 2013. All this, provided the college still considers me a student and issues me documents, transcripts, signs my applications and doesn't consider it irregular behavior on my part for not completing internship on time for the above reason . I might have to explain to the PDs why it took me 6.5 years to complete MBBS instead of the usual 5.5 years, will have to 'renew' my status as a 'student' with the ECFMG by sending them a new form 183 with May 2013 as my graduation date (If my college signs it and if the ECFMG entertains such a request and doesn't consider it irregular behavior ). I might be able to justify it to the PDs saying that it was the ONLY way for me to get any hands-on experience which is so valued in the their program and that I used that time to complete all the steps.

One of my seniors had fallen sick and so his completion and degree got delayed by a year and he's got four electives now (2 Surgery, 1 IM Cardio, 1 IM Pulmo) plus he's been prepping for step3 this year. So he's gonna have a strong CV by the 2013 match which would possibly trump that 1 year CV gap.

However this is a pretty messed up situation with a lot of uncertainties and also, another year's wait added to the already prolonged career path of Medicine. In case I have to take the Indian PGCET for residency here as a back-up, it'll be greatly delayed too (my friends will be in their PGY2 by that time). Also, according to a few posts here, there are reports of an AMG surge in 2013 and the percentage of IMG matches are decreasing every year, so it'll mean a tougher chance in 2014 match.

The more straightforward route would be to complete my degree on time and try for observerships/research opportunities in the US and try applying for the 2013 match. However observerships/research isn't any less messier to get into and electives are still more valued by most programs. A senior who's done electives and observership and research has got 24 interviews this season and she said that electives are the key.

My mind's in a mess right now and I can't even concentrate on my step1 prep 'cause of this. Found this thread while searching about this issue and though I'll post this here. These are almost all the factors one's gotta account for if one's considering the delaying graduation option. Might be of help to anyone in the same boat as me, and it'd help if the seniors could contribute and comment on this issue.

Thanks.
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  #6  
Old 03-11-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prateek.G View Post
In Maharashtra, the MUHS issues degrees only once a year ......... Might be of help to anyone in the same boat as me, and it'd help if the seniors could contribute and comment on this issue.

Thanks.

hey prateek,
reading ur post,it seems u r a right person to clear my doubts.m too a med student in final yr under muhs uni. and will be starting with internship next yr.i want to apply for im residency.my toefl score-101,usmle step-1->not yet taken,no research work done,ready with all documents required for electives,m planning to apply for it from feb to april 2013 in foll. universities:
mt. sinai,northshore lij,kansas-wichita,tulane,weill cornell,harvard,yale,brown,tufts.

here are my doubts:
1. do u think these uni. r adequate enough to find good electives and fetch some good lors?
2.is there any specific time period when imgs definitely get electives in these abovementioned universities?
3.i also heard of john hopkins research electives.is it worth applying there even if the research doesnt publish nor do i get any lors?does it count for usce?
m open to any other suggestions to my issue......

Last edited by usmle001; 03-11-2012 at 08:00 AM.
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Old 03-12-2012
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Question How to put internship on hold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smanthrav View Post
You can take an extension (basically, put your internship on hold and delay your graduation) and then apply. You can finish your internship after you return from your elective.

I think that's what a lot of people do.

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Hi,

Im supposed to be graduating in may 2012. I was thinking of doing an elective in august/september. But in order to do that, I need to extend my internship. Can I complete all my postings and just delay submitting the papers in the University office? or should I bunk my postings too and come back from electives and then do them? Please help.
Thanks!

-Appu
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  #8  
Old 03-13-2012
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Help

Dear everyone

I am planning to take an elective. I was asked to provide a "proof of blood-borne and air-borne pathogen training". Where can I get such training, any recommended websites that provide such proof upon completion? Taking into consideration that the university doesn't provide any or recommend any!
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Old 03-17-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by appu View Post
Hi,

Im supposed to be graduating in may 2012. I was thinking of doing an elective in august/september. But in order to do that, I need to extend my internship. Can I complete all my postings and just delay submitting the papers in the University office? or should I bunk my postings too and come back from electives and then do them? Please help.
Thanks!

-Appu

I've tried to get as much info about this as possible and I think it'd be safer to bunk one short posting of 15 days or a month and delay the internship completion certificate. That's what I'm planning to do. ECFMG specifies graduation as "completion of all requirements to get a degree" according to which internship completion means graduation, so technically that way electives should be done before internship completion. I've also heard from seniors that it doesn't matter much if you do electives after internship completion certificate and before degree as in no one has had any problems so far and all of my seniors have matched in yesterday's result. Nevertheless, just delaying paperwork for the degree after getting internship completion could, just could, in the rarest possible scenario, be considered irregular behavior according to the above mentioned definition by ECFMG. Moreover, according to my knowledge, there is no rule which says that you must complete internship within one year, so you can delay a part of your internship and complete it later. You can tell the people in the US that you have completed 12m of internship as per university requirements and that you voluntarily took a break in between to do electives. This way you won't be breaking any rules. As for delaying a part of internship, you might have to talk about it with your PSM department. That's what even I have to do sometime soon, 'cause I need PSM dept's clearance for anything from applying for USMLE Steps to getting documents for electives.

Whatever I've said here is based on the info I've got from various sources and seniors, after I had posted my last reply on this thread. I do not know too many tried-and-tested cases related to this issue. I have one senior who is doing it and will apply this year, so I will know about this issue for sure by next year. I and one of my friends, we're planning to delay internship completion by keeping a 15d posting pending and take the step1 and apply for electives until then. Will keep you updated on any new info. Do try to consult your college or your seniors about this issue before you decide anything. I hope my reply helps you.
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  #10  
Old 03-17-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usmle001 View Post
hey prateek,
reading ur post,it seems u r a right person to clear my doubts.m too a med student in final yr under muhs uni. and will be starting with internship next yr.i want to apply for im residency.my toefl score-101,usmle step-1->not yet taken,no research work done,ready with all documents required for electives,m planning to apply for it from feb to april 2013 in foll. universities:
mt. sinai,northshore lij,kansas-wichita,tulane,weill cornell,harvard,yale,brown,tufts.

here are my doubts:
1. do u think these uni. r adequate enough to find good electives and fetch some good lors?
2.is there any specific time period when imgs definitely get electives in these abovementioned universities?
3.i also heard of john hopkins research electives.is it worth applying there even if the research doesnt publish nor do i get any lors?does it count for usce?
m open to any other suggestions to my issue......
Well, I had applied to the same places for Mar-Apr 2011 but had not been accepted anywhere. A lot of my batchmates did get electives at Mt.Sinai and a few got into Cornell. The ones you listed are the only options you have if you haven't taken the step1, so do apply to all of those. As I didn't get accepted to any of these places, I do not know first-hand about LORs but my batchmates did get LORs. It all depends on the attending you're posted under.
Right now, I'll advise you to apply to all the places you've mentioned and follow up with them, especially Cornell and Mt.Sinai. Also, if you can afford it you can certainly get electives at Brown Alpert if you send them the full fee, which is around $3700/m, in advance. That's where many of my juniors got into this year. As for the time of the year, I really have not much idea but I guess Dec-Apr is a good time.
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  #11  
Old 03-22-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prateek.G View Post
Well, I had applied to the same places for Mar-Apr 2011 but had not been accepted anywhere. A lot of my batchmates did get electives at Mt.Sinai and a few got into Cornell. The ones you listed are the only options you have if you haven't taken the step1, so do apply to all of those. As I didn't get accepted to any of these places, I do not know first-hand about LORs but my batchmates did get LORs. It all depends on the attending you're posted under.
Right now, I'll advise you to apply to all the places you've mentioned and follow up with them, especially Cornell and Mt.Sinai. Also, if you can afford it you can certainly get electives at Brown Alpert if you send them the full fee, which is around $3700/m, in advance. That's where many of my juniors got into this year. As for the time of the year, I really have not much idea but I guess Dec-Apr is a good time.
thanks prateek for ur reply.just a few more questions.....
i'll apply for universities that i've already mentioned above for feb-april 2013.if i get them->good.if not,then continue for prep of step 1 and 2 and apply for electives in step 1 universities in yr 2014.also i would like to apply for a research electives in 2014 at j.hopkins.this definitely will delay my graduation beyond may 2014(maybe more then 4 months).but i would then probably go for amo-ship/observership for few months or a yr n then apply for sept 2015 match.

now,does that sound a good idea or should i change my approach?
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Old 03-23-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usmle001 View Post
thanks prateek for ur reply.just a few more questions.....
i'll apply for universities that i've already mentioned above for feb-april 2013.if i get them->good.if not,then continue for prep of step 1 and 2 and apply for electives in step 1 universities in yr 2014.also i would like to apply for a research electives in 2014 at j.hopkins.this definitely will delay my graduation beyond may 2014(maybe more then 4 months).but i would then probably go for amo-ship/observership for few months or a yr n then apply for sept 2015 match.

now,does that sound a good idea or should i change my approach?

Hi .Nice to find Indian docs here , I feel you are already into internship by now ... may be you are trying to make a great profile by so many electives and research ..... thats fine but i guess , the key is if you finish the step1 and 2 months of electives which is the basic requirement by next March then you can easily apply in 2013 sept ........ along with a observership during august or sept if you have time ....... i can save your year didnt get why you want to do so many electives and research till 2015 sept ..... sorry just asking .... the more the better .....but still saving the year is helpful and as prateek said ......... even i would recommend you to do 2 months in Brown if you find it affordable .advantage ?? you will get a medicine elective for both months , which is very tough in northwestern and yale and others ........ if but if you want you can easily get dermat in northwestern or even rehabilitation medicine ......try for these .....

goodluck
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Old 04-04-2012
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hello you guys,
what you people have posted is very interesting.

i too am in the final year MBBS and was planning to apply to Cornell. however my Principal is not very comfortable in writing a LOR which actually entailing him to "recommend" me into the program. however he says he has no problem writing a NOC that will be similar to the content of the LOR but without the "i recommend him to.." part.

i will call the cornell people trying to clarify the matter, but in the meanwhile what are your thoughts on this?

thanks
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Old 04-04-2012
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Smile I agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prateek.G View Post
I've tried to get as much info about this as possible and I think it'd be safer to bunk one short posting of 15 days or a month and delay the internship completion certificate. That's what I'm planning to do. ECFMG specifies graduation as "completion of all requirements to get a degree" according to which internship completion means graduation, so technically that way electives should be done before internship completion. I've also heard from seniors that it doesn't matter much if you do electives after internship completion certificate and before degree as in no one has had any problems so far and all of my seniors have matched in yesterday's result. Nevertheless, just delaying paperwork for the degree after getting internship completion could, just could, in the rarest possible scenario, be considered irregular behavior according to the above mentioned definition by ECFMG. Moreover, according to my knowledge, there is no rule which says that you must complete internship within one year, so you can delay a part of your internship and complete it later. You can tell the people in the US that you have completed 12m of internship as per university requirements and that you voluntarily took a break in between to do electives. This way you won't be breaking any rules. As for delaying a part of internship, you might have to talk about it with your PSM department. That's what even I have to do sometime soon, 'cause I need PSM dept's clearance for anything from applying for USMLE Steps to getting documents for electives.

Whatever I've said here is based on the info I've got from various sources and seniors, after I had posted my last reply on this thread. I do not know too many tried-and-tested cases related to this issue. I have one senior who is doing it and will apply this year, so I will know about this issue for sure by next year. I and one of my friends, we're planning to delay internship completion by keeping a 15d posting pending and take the step1 and apply for electives until then. Will keep you updated on any new info. Do try to consult your college or your seniors about this issue before you decide anything. I hope my reply helps you.
Thanks for your reply.. I did my bit of asking around here, and got similar recommendations from seniors. Ill have to think of leaving a short posting for after the elective. All the best!
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