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USCE & Clinical Rotations IMG discussions of United States Clinical Experience (USCE), clinical rotations, clerkships, externships, observerships, electives, and internships.


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  #1  
Old 05-26-2016
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Default Elective after graduation

Hii all. Please give me a good advise
I'm now in my final year, and I would graduate in November 2016, but I would like to apply elective for January - March 2017. My dean said that he would try to postpone my graduation to June 2017 by sending mail to the national committee in my country. And it would need several month for the committee to reply the mail, and because I have to apply for the programs 6months before, I dont have time to wait for the committee.
If by any chances I match in an elective program but the committee reject my postpone graduation, would it matter? I mean, when someday I get interviewed from program directors, would they ask why I could get elective after my graduation time ?
Thank youuu
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  #2  
Old 05-26-2016
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your from which country?

In India, we have one year of internship, most of the students, extend internship and go for electives.

Coming to ur question, that is fine, do electives as soon as possible.

While applying for electives you need dean'e letter mentioning your expected date of graduation, so if he mentions in that you would be graduating later then getting into electives is not a problem

In case you graduate before your elective date also, its not a big deal.

PD's dont go so much into detail.

My advise would be, if your done with step 1 apply asap or even if ur not done with step 1 apply to univ which dont require step 1.
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  #3  
Old 05-26-2016
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@azetronam
Thank you very much for the reply
No, I'm from Indonesia. In Indonesia, we finish 5 years in university, get diploma, then do internship to get letter of permission to work in another hospital.
The regulation here is a bit confusing, they are very often changing the rule, like in this September 2016 they would change the regulation again. That's why I cannot make sure about the graduation date.
Yaa I'm afraid that the PD would think I am lying when applying the elective programs.
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  #4  
Old 05-26-2016
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Do you have a final exam before getting diploma, if not just be absent from your med school for around 15 days, then once you finish your electives, u can do those 15 days.

you wouldnt get ur diploma before fulfilling the requirements rite?
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  #5  
Old 05-26-2016
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@azetronam
Yaa I have final exam.. But my dean insisted me to pass the exam, because if I fail it the university's reputation would be bad. That way, he would not sign my paper for the electives.. So complicated.
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  #6  
Old 05-26-2016
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Can understand your problem, but im not sure how rules are in your country.

My advice would be to take a dean's letter stating that you would graduate in July 2017 and apply for electives during Nov-Feb period to those university's that dont require step 1, in worst case scenario even you graduate in Nov, ur elective spot at that univ be fixed, so do the electives.

And when applying for residency 2-3 months of elective and graduation date won't make a difference.

Good luck..
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  #7  
Old 05-26-2016
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@aztreonam
Thank you very much friend..
I'll follow ur advice..
Hope the program directors in the future would not concern anything about the dates.
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  #8  
Old 05-26-2016
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Its true that PDs may not take a close look at the dates but you never know. Also you are NOT eligible to do electives after graduation, everyone in american medical system knows that. You cannot do an elective in US after medical school even if you were a US medical student and same rules apply for international applicants. You need liability insurance while doing electives as you would be interacting with patients, so its illegal if you do an elective after graduation by modifying the dates. Maybe it would go unnoticed but do you really want to risk your shot at medical career in US by doing that? I would not.
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  #9  
Old 05-26-2016
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@saxo
Thank you for your reply,
Now I am very confused. So in my country, when I finish my medical education, I would get 2 certificate,
First certificate is from the medical council -->after taking final exam
Second certificate come from the university --> after attending a graduation ceremony ( it usually takes 2-3 months after the certificate from medical council).
So If I already took the final exam and get the certification from the medical council, but I didnt attend the graduation ceremony, would I still be considered as a students and not graduated?
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  #10  
Old 05-26-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mekel1991 View Post
@saxo
Thank you for your reply,
Now I am very confused. So in my country, when I finish my medical education, I would get 2 certificate,
First certificate is from the medical council -->after taking final exam
Second certificate come from the university --> after attending a graduation ceremony ( it usually takes 2-3 months after the certificate from medical council).
So If I already took the final exam and get the certification from the medical council, but I didnt attend the graduation ceremony, would I still be considered as a students and not graduated?
I am nit fimilar with the situation in Indonesia but usually if you have completed all the requirement for graduation (i.e. finished your exams and if required an internship) you are a graduate.
I had the chance to speak with 2 PDs from good university based programs (where there are not a lot of IMGs) and you will be surprised how much they know about medical education systems in different places outside US. They are PDs for a reason and in my opinion it would be a really bad idea to do an elective after graduation as it will be crystal clear in your CV and ECFMG status report when you would have graduated. My advise would be to see if you can extend your final year, if you cannot do observerships/externships/research. Getting an excellent LoR from any form clinical exposure is great for residency and tons of people who do observerships match every year.
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  #11  
Old 05-26-2016
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@saxo
I have asked my dean about the requirement to graduate from my university. So after I pass the exam, I would be a M.D . But I'm still a student until after I attend the graduation ceremony and sign the graduation certificate. So do you think I am eligible to join elective program after the exam and before the graduation ceremony?
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  #12  
Old 05-26-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mekel1991 View Post
@saxo
I have asked my dean about the requirement to graduate from my university. So after I pass the exam, I would be a M.D . But I'm still a student until after I attend the graduation ceremony and sign the graduation certificate. So do you think I am eligible to join elective program after the exam and before the graduation ceremony?
haha I can see why you are confused now. In US and other countries, "student" and "graduate" may have differing requirements based on the curriculum. Bottom line is, if you are in your final year prior to graduation, you are eligible for electives. If you are an M.D. when you pass the exam, in the US terms that probably means you have graduated. Cause ECFMG will ask you two things : when have you completed all the requirements for graduation? (this seems to be when u passed final exams for you) and when did you receive your graduation certificate?
Just to be sure, you might want to speak with your friends or your seniors who might have already been through the process to see if you are still considered to be in the "final year of medical school" after you have passed the exam and prior to getting the graduation certificate.
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Old 09-27-2016
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Hi what happened to you mekel1991 ? I am on the same boat right now. I have been accepted to do the rotation in January 2017 but I will be graduated in December 2016 because of my dean suddenly change the system. I m thinking of keep doing the elective. What do you think?
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Old 10-02-2016
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Hi anyone?
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Old 10-02-2016
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I just had to go through a major hassle to use the 1 month of "nothing" before my graduation date to do an elective. I had to get approval by a very slow committee in order to be able to receive "academic credit" for that rotation. This is all a bit silly, you are lucky your dean will postpone your graduation date by 6 months so easily. If I wanted to postpone my graduation date, I would have to fail one of the subjects this semester.
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  #16  
Old 10-02-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsalim View Post
Hi anyone?
Like I have already stated before, it's not really smart to do an elective after graduation (as it's illegal). It might go unnoticed, but if you're caught that would be the end of your medical career in the US
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  #17  
Old 10-02-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saxo View Post
haha I can see why you are confused now. In US and other countries, "student" and "graduate" may have differing requirements based on the curriculum. Bottom line is, if you are in your final year prior to graduation, you are eligible for electives. If you are an M.D. when you pass the exam, in the US terms that probably means you have graduated. Cause ECFMG will ask you two things : when have you completed all the requirements for graduation? (this seems to be when u passed final exams for you) and when did you receive your graduation certificate?
So, basically if you can work as an MD you are a medical graduate. Many students around here anticipate the day they receive the degree in order to work. But speaking to the administrative people at my university, I will not be allowed to work unless I anticipate the day I receive that degree which technically means I am still a last year student until then.

I am pretty sure my graduation date will be listed as the date I receive my degree certificate. So I should still be able to do the elective. Am I right about this?

Edited: I think maybe I am wrong about this, so more bureaucratic headaches for me. But changing the graduation date to match the day I finish the elective seems like something "doable".

Last edited by parcus; 10-02-2016 at 07:19 AM.
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  #18  
Old 10-06-2016
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Just an update, saxo seems to be correct. And that graduation date is surprisingly hard to change unless you want to fail a course or something. In my case there is a workaround I will try to use.

Just be aware that the day you receive your certificate is probably NOT the day you graduate (date you finish all your requirements for graduation). This caused a lot of confusion to me. And in general, administrative staff don't know much about this either.
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