The 12 Weeks Clerkship (Electives) Limit of New York State for IMGs applying to Residency - USMLE Forums
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USCE & Clinical Rotations IMG discussions of United States Clinical Experience (USCE), clinical rotations, clerkships, externships, observerships, electives, and internships.


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  #1  
Old 09-30-2010
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New York The 12 Weeks Clerkship (Electives) Limit of New York State for IMGs applying to Residency

Today my friend got an interview from a residency program in New York. They asked him to fill a form about a 12 weeks clerkship (electives) and he's scared and confused about it.

The form that he received is attached to this thread under the name of (Brooklyn Medical Center) in the form of a PDF. Long Island College Hospital has a similar form which is also attached to this thread.

Many International Medical Graduates are confused about this rule and whether it affects their eligibility to apply for residency in the state of New York which certainly one of the most IMG-friendly states of all the states.

Another confusing part of the rule, is that it's accompanied by a list of medical schools that are "approved" by the NYS.

Here's the list of medical schools:
  • American University of Antigua, Antigua
  • American University of the Caribbean, St. Martin, Netherland Antilles
  • The Autonomous University of Guadalajara, Guadalajara Mexico
  • English Language Program, Univ of Debrecen, Medical & Health Science Ctr, Med School, Debrecen, Hungary
  • English Language Program, Medical University of Lublin, Lublin, Poland
  • English Language Program, Medical University of Silesia, Katowice, Poland
  • Fatima College of Medicine, Manila, Philippines
  • International Health & Medicine Program, Ben Gurion Univ of the Negrev, Beersheva, Israel
  • Kasturba Medical College, Manipal, India
  • Medical University of the Americas/Nevis, Nevis West Indies
  • Ross University School of Medicine, Roseau, Dominica
  • Saba University School of Medicine, Saba, Netherland Antilles
  • St. George's University School of Medicine, St. Georges Grenada
  • St. Matthew's University School of Medicine, Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands
Here's the deal
The State of New York won't accept you as a resident (or at least you need to file for an exception) if you have done more than 12 weeks of clerkships (electives) in a country outside the country from which your medical school of graduation is located.

For example if you graduate from Mexico and you did 14 weeks of clinical clerkships in USA then you need to file for an exception.
The medical schools listed above are exempt from this rule and it does not apply to them.

If you did your clerkships in the same country as your medical school then you absolutely have no problem.

The important point to remember is that this rule is talking about clerkships and electives are part of your curriculum and are mentioned in your medical school transcript. Any elective or clerkship that you do on your own and that's not mentioned in your medical school transcript and that's not a requirement for graduation is NOT COUNTED.

For further information am attaching two important documents
The original rule as updated in 2006 under the name (NY 12 Weeks Rule) and if you have done more than 12 weeks of clerkships then you can use the attached form (Eligibility Form) to file for exception.
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  #2  
Old 10-01-2010
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this is a retaliatory policy against many caribbean schools which load up heavily on clinical clerkships in the US. It is barred by law to "discriminate" on the basis of the nationality of the individual or the school which he/she graduated from. However, medical schools in the carib and some other locations take students away from the US education system and re-insert them at the residency level.

This should not affect indian applicants, lest they were overenthusiastic and did nearly a mini-residency in clerkships already!
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Old 10-01-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabio View Post
The important point to remember is that this rule is talking about clerkships and electives are part of your curriculum and are mentioned in your medical school transcript. Any elective or clerkship that you do on your own and that's not mentioned in your medical school transcript and that's not a requirement for graduation is NOT COUNTED.
Mmm...this what I want to see .
Our university obligates us to do 2 months as a part of curriculum...If I want to do 4 months then 2 months of them are not in curriculum.

May you provide me with an official confirmation regarding this point ?
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Old 10-01-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by good_boy_1234 View Post
Mmm...this what I want to see .
Our university obligates us to do 2 months as a part of curriculum...If I want to do 4 months then 2 months of them are not in curriculum.

May you provide me with an official confirmation regarding this point ?
Then you should be OK.
This means that you'll be having only 8 weeks as "out-of-country" clerkships and that rule does not apply to you.
I have no official information to quote for you, but one thing you can do is that you yourself call the New York State Department of Education,
here's the contact info

State Board for Medicine
89 Washington Avenue
West Wing 3nd Floor, Albany, NY 12234
Tel. 518-474-3817, Ext. 560 Fax 518-486-4846
E-mail:mpressle@mail.nysed.gov


If you do get some info from them please post it here
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Old 10-08-2010
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Thanks Sabio.
The e-mail you provided above replied they are responsible for electives only, not the residency eligibility. It is NY Department of Health responsibility.

I found an email for General mailbox. I sent them a message 4 days ago but no reply till now...
I will add their reply when they do.
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Old 10-22-2010
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I got the answer from NYS Department of Health :

Quote:
Thank you for contacting the NYS Department of Health regarding residency training in NYS. If you completed more than 12 weeks of clinical clerkships outside the country in which your medical school is located, you are not eligible to undertake residency training unless you are a graduate of a medical school/program "approved" by the NYS Education Department. However, the New York State Department of Health regulation (Section 10, NYCRR - 405) only applies if the clinical clerkship rotation(s) is counted as part of a medical education degree requirement. If these rotations are less than 12 weeks this regulation is not be applicable towards your residency application in NYS
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Old 10-31-2010
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Hi,
I have extended my internship period after my internship was done so that i could persue electives in US. As we all know that once internship is done we cant do electives. So i read your qoute here and what i wanted to ask is that whether this rule also applies to me since i will be doing my electives by extending my internship period i.e without interfering with my curriculum. Kindly give me some advice reg the same.
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Old 10-31-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendetta View Post
Hi,
I have extended my internship period after my internship was done so that i could persue electives in US. As we all know that once internship is done we cant do electives. So i read your qoute here and what i wanted to ask is that whether this rule also applies to me since i will be doing my electives by extending my internship period i.e without interfering with my curriculum. Kindly give me some advice reg the same.
dear vendetta,
i dont think the rule applies in your case either, as u are pursuing electives out of CHOICE, and not coz its a part of ur med school curriculum.
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Old 11-02-2010
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Another Confirmation from NYS Department of Health, specific for electives not part of curriculum :

Quote:
This New York State Department of Health regulation (Section 10, NYCRR - 405) only applies if the clinical clerkship rotation(s) is counted as part of a medical education degree requirement. If a person performs more than 12 weeks outside his country but only receives academic credit for 12, then the fact that he exceeded the limit has no effect on this regulation.

NYS has no provision to grant any waivers regarding this requirement. Please feel free to contact DOH if you have any further questions.
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Old 11-11-2010
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I have another query,

After I get the interviews from NY univs/hospitals, they will send a form to be completed by me to see if I am eligible or not ,yes ?
Do any have information about this form ?
Is it required to write all clinical clerkships in my transcript where & when ?
or attaching Transcript is sufficient ?
Do they have the access to my ECFMG/MyEras information ?

Thank you
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Old 11-11-2010
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Default Yes. Yes. Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by good_boy_1234 View Post
I have another query,

After I get the interviews from NY univs/hospitals, they will send a form to be completed by me to see if I am eligible or not ,yes ?
Do any have information about this form ?
Is it required to write all clinical clerkships in my transcript where & when ?
or attaching Transcript is sufficient ?
Do they have the access to my ECFMG/MyEras information ?

Thank you
Examples of the forms requested by NY residency programs are attached to the first post of this thread.
Yes, they need your transcript.
Yes, they have access to your CAF if you applied to them via ERAS.
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Old 11-24-2010
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Hi! I have a question, if the international medical school you are going to is not on the list of approved medical schools to do more than 12 weeks of clinical clerkship, what can be done in order to be eligible to apply for residency in NY state? How can we file for exception and what are the criteria we need to meet? Any information would be greatly appreciated! thanks!
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Old 12-02-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcar9880 View Post
Hi! I have a question, if the international medical school you are going to is not on the list of approved medical schools to do more than 12 weeks of clinical clerkship, what can be done in order to be eligible to apply for residency in NY state? How can we file for exception and what are the criteria we need to meet? Any information would be greatly appreciated! thanks!
Does your school send you to do clerkships in USA for more than 12 weeks? If the answer is NO then you don't need to worry.
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Originally Posted by Sabio View Post
Does your school send you to do clerkships in USA for more than 12 weeks? If the answer is NO then you don't need to worry.
Yes...they do. We do a total of 8 months in Chicago and New York. =(
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Old 12-03-2010
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Arrow Then this is what you should do

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcar9880 View Post
Yes...they do. We do a total of 8 months in Chicago and New York. =(
Then in that case you have to contact them for exception as pointed out in the previous posts.
However, I think th best thing you can do is to ask your senior colleagues and your dean's office and what have they done about that in the past.
Your medical school should probably contact the New York State to get listed in that exemption list.

Good luck
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Old 02-21-2011
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now is this also has to do with our one year internship?

cause in college we study for 3 years basic sciences(anatomy,phisyo,patho,micro,bio,histo,phar ma) and then we study 3 years clinical clerkship(opth,ENT,OBGYN,Ped,I.M.,Surgery) then we do one year internship

so is internship counts a clinical clerkship that we dont have to take more than 12 weeks outside the country we study in
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Old 02-22-2011
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Originally Posted by MedicalDR14 View Post
now is this also has to do with our one year internship?

cause in college we study for 3 years basic sciences(anatomy,phisyo,patho,micro,bio,histo,phar ma) and then we study 3 years clinical clerkship(opth,ENT,OBGYN,Ped,I.M.,Surgery) then we do one year internship

so is internship counts a clinical clerkship that we dont have to take more than 12 weeks outside the country we study in
Yes. It applied to any core clerkships that you take as part of your curriculum outside the country of your medical school.
Please read the first post, any clerkships you do that is listed in your medical school transcript is governed by this rule.
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Old 07-07-2011
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Hi guys
I attended two medical schools: first i studied medicine in Azerbaijan for 4 years where I did some of elective and clerkships, then I transferred to Moscow Medical Academy in Russia where studied for two year until my graduation in 2004. I got my diploma from Moscow Medical Academy but some of electives and clerkships were done in Azerbaijan prior my transfer to Moscow. Does this 12 weeks limit apply to me?
Thanks.
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Old 07-07-2011
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Default sabio reply plz

I read all the posts. reply me plz on my question

I m an IMG. our college does not send us for electives. it does not have have any affiliation with any US college. we do electives on our own and is not counted as a part or our curriculum. but if we do 3 months elective outside then our course duration extends for 3 months in my home country college.

so does that rule regarding electives apply to me ??
plz reply
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doc.elman View Post
Hi guys
I attended two medical schools: first i studied medicine in Azerbaijan for 4 years where I did some of elective and clerkships, then I transferred to Moscow Medical Academy in Russia where studied for two year until my graduation in 2004. I got my diploma from Moscow Medical Academy but some of electives and clerkships were done in Azerbaijan prior my transfer to Moscow. Does this 12 weeks limit apply to me?
Thanks.
Yes, it applies to you.

-
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Originally Posted by rahul usmle View Post
I read all the posts. reply me plz on my question

I m an IMG. our college does not send us for electives. it does not have have any affiliation with any US college. we do electives on our own and is not counted as a part or our curriculum. but if we do 3 months elective outside then our course duration extends for 3 months in my home country college.

so does that rule regarding electives apply to me ??
plz reply
No, it does not apply to you.

-
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabio View Post
No, it does not apply to you.

-
Thank you very much for your quick response.
What are the chances to get residency if I file for an exception and how can I file for exception? BTW I don't know if it matters but neither of medical schools i attended send students for clerkships to US.
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Old 07-08-2011
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thanku so much
u r a grt help
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Old 07-28-2011
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Question 4th year electives

What about electives done at the end of 4th year (5 year program) are they counted ? Taking into consideration that it is up to us to choose the place/department to do it ?
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Old 08-12-2011
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Post Brooklyn Medical Center Form.

If you have done more than 3 months, but it was not part of your curriculum, does that mean that you'll write that you didn't do any clerkships outside your home country?
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  #26  
Old 09-20-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tummynun View Post
If you have done more than 3 months, but it was not part of your curriculum, does that mean that you'll write that you didn't do any clerkships outside your home country?
You can apply to New York
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Warning! Clerkship/Internship in India, medical school in nepal

Any advice?
I got an IV call stating the same thread.
I have graduated from Manipal College of Medical Sciences, Nepal but did my entire 1 year of mandatory rotatory hands on in India (my home country)
What am i supposed to do?
Also, is there a complete list of the NYS approved schools? Any link to that?
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Old 11-11-2011
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Default this is crazy

So do I understand this correctly?
Residency Programs in the US want to see USCE from IMGs, but if I want to do a residency in NYS I am not allowed to do more than 12 weeks in another country? So basically, i can't have more than 3 months of USCE??
And how is this for other US states? Are there rules like that?

Please help
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Old 08-28-2012
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where did you hear they require 6-12 months of USCE? I don't think that is true!
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Old 08-30-2012
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Hi
Thank you so much For helping all of us
Actually i am in big trouble and very confused what to do
Please guide me according to your best knowledge.

I just finished my fourth year of 5 year MBBS program from China.
In our medical school we never did any clerkships in our 3rd and 4th year.
We have to do all of these clerkships in our final year for 12 months.
So in our final year we don't have any classes or less just we have to do clerkships/internship in the hospitals and we are allowed to do these clerkships/internship from anywhere in the world from any hospital.Some student do these clerkships from Pakistan some from India some from
USA.and my medical school at the end of 4th year give us LOG BOOK which we have to fill from where ever we did clerkships
At in the end of final year when we go back to our medical school with completed LOG book and we submit that log book to our school and then they take our final exam including medicine gyne paeds and surgery and in the end they give us transcript on which it is mentioned that this student has done clerkships in final year and tells about how many weeks student have done but there it is not mentioned that from where he/she has done clerkships.And with the transcript they give us one more certificate which includes that this student has done clerkship/internship from our university.
So from my all documents There will be nothing mention which shows that I have done clerkships from anywhere else.
I am planning to do 3 months rotations from USA and remaining 5 months from Uk and rest from Pak. My school doesn't have any issue they just need rotations and log book to be filled.so please tell me that if after my graduation I don't reveal that I have done my clerkships from country other then my medical school as it will not mentioned on my transcripts and other documents so is it ok?
Or I should tell that I have done from some where else?if I hide this while applying for residency or while during Ecfmg registration.Are they able to know about this or not?
Actually i don't want to do clerkships in china I can do there also it's upto me but I think I can get more experience if I do them from some good hospitals and countries.Language is also an issue in the hospitals in China.
Please reply me and tell me in detail.that what should I do??
What will be best for me.
Thank you
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Old 09-21-2012
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Hi All,

I go to Belize Medical College and I am in the final year of my medical school, I was planning on doing some electives in New York and happily stumbled across the wealth of information here.
What I would like to ask about is that Belize doesn't have a teaching hospital, so all of our clinical experience is from outside Belize, some in Mexico and some in Nepal.
From what I understand, I will have to apply for an exception, when I apply for Residency in New York right???
Would there be a problem while applying for electives in New York?
Kindly guide me through.
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Default ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drarnab View Post
this is a retaliatory policy against many caribbean schools which load up heavily on clinical clerkships in the US. It is barred by law to "discriminate" on the basis of the nationality of the individual or the school which he/she graduated from. However, medical schools in the carib and some other locations take students away from the US education system and re-insert them at the residency level.

This should not affect indian applicants, lest they were overenthusiastic and did nearly a mini-residency in clerkships already!
Yeah, I heard about it. They pay a lot of money to place their students in NYC hospitals for clerkships displacing American students from local schools. Although, I don't know how effective is that retaliation since many of the Caribbean schools are listed as exempted
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  #33  
Old 10-19-2016
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Hey guys!
I'm a med student in Germany and just now starting to do my research about a possible residency program in the US - since my bf is American and has a job kind of limited to either LA or NYC I'm mostly interested about their regulations and requirements. Thanks to this forum I learned about the clerkship rule which then made me wonder if any other state - especially California - has any similar restrictions?

I'd really appreciate your help since it really isn't easy at all to get information about the US system from over here!

All the best,

AJ
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Old 10-19-2016
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Hi AJ - CA in particular has really strict rules against IMGs and hands-on programs. If youre going to gain experience there, make sure to look into the PTAL letter and look into clerkships/electives while still a student. I personally rotated in NYC for several months and in GA with no issues but have heard the horror stories about CA so decided against it overall.
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