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USCE & Clinical Rotations IMG discussions of United States Clinical Experience (USCE), clinical rotations, clerkships, externships, observerships, electives, and internships.


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  #1  
Old 03-28-2011
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Question Paid Externships are not liked by Program Directors

Many people have said that the paid externships are not very useful because most PDs know about which hospitals do it, so they do not give importance to those LORs..

Do you guys think that's true?
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Old 03-28-2011
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I disagree I disagree

I don't think this is true.

These are my reasons:

1) There are hundreds of paid externships places and I don't think program directors are aware of all those spaces.
2) Externships are sometimes even asked to be paid by high profile university programs, so it's not something "dirty" or "non-professional".
3) Some externships companies do not guarantee an LoR, they provide objective assessment and you are paying to get trained not to get the LoR.
4) I personally know several colleagues who signed up with externship companies and they were then successfully matched. None of them mentioned to me that they faced a problem with program directors because of those externship rotations.
5) PDs do not care how did you get the LoR, they just want to make sure that you were exposed to US clinical practice and that you can actually speak English and deal with patients.
6) I believe that no physician in USA will lie and write about you stuff which are not true, even though you paid them. US physicians are very meticulous and they are very much aware of the professional code of conduct.

Also, very importantly, if the program director asked you (have you paid to get that LoR), your answer should be the following:

((Thank you for bringing that up. I paid the X company to find me a training position because I couldn't find it by other means. The attending whom I worked with told me from the beginning that the LoR is not guaranteed and the fact I paid to get trained has nothing to do with my assessment. Also, the money I paid did not go only to the attending but it also went to pay for liability insurance, company profit, objective assessment, and other venues.))

I don't have any affiliation with paid externships companies but I think they are the only way for IMGs to get into "the closed doors" of US clinical practice. Very few physicians are willing to allow you temper with their patients (hands-on practice) FOR FREE! American people are materialistic and they won't go that far in helping you get the hands-on for free and that fact is well known by program directors.
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  #3  
Old 03-28-2011
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thanx for ur reply....I did a paid externship and was worried after seeing this thread
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Old 04-01-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hokolesqua View Post
I don't think this is true.

These are my reasons:

1) There are hundreds of paid externships places and I don't think program directors are aware of all those spaces.
2) Externships are sometimes even asked to be paid by high profile university programs, so it's not something "dirty" or "non-professional".
3) Some externships companies do not guarantee an LoR, they provide objective assessment and you are paying to get trained not to get the LoR.
4) I personally know several colleagues who signed up with externship companies and they were then successfully matched. None of them mentioned to me that they faced a problem with program directors because of those externship rotations.
5) PDs do not care how did you get the LoR, they just want to make sure that you were exposed to US clinical practice and that you can actually speak English and deal with patients.
6) I believe that no physician in USA will lie and write about you stuff which are not true, even though you paid them. US physicians are very meticulous and they are very much aware of the professional code of conduct.

Also, very importantly, if the program director asked you (have you paid to get that LoR), your answer should be the following:

((Thank you for bringing that up. I paid the X company to find me a training position because I couldn't find it by other means. The attending whom I worked with told me from the beginning that the LoR is not guaranteed and the fact I paid to get trained has nothing to do with my assessment. Also, the money I paid did not go only to the attending but it also went to pay for liability insurance, company profit, objective assessment, and other venues.))

I don't have any affiliation with paid externships companies but I think they are the only way for IMGs to get into "the closed doors" of US clinical practice. Very few physicians are willing to allow you temper with their patients (hands-on practice) FOR FREE! American people are materialistic and they won't go that far in helping you get the hands-on for free and that fact is well known by program directors.
Hokolesqua,

Very well said.
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Old 04-13-2011
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hi guys. just saw this post and was actually wondering if you could tell me which services you used. I'm slightly conflicted about the idea but I don't think I'd be able to get an observer/extern status otherwise, and am kind of on my last thread here...any suggestions? and any idea as to what kind of institutions we should look to train at?
thanks!
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Old 04-13-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bandar View Post
hi guys. just saw this post and was actually wondering if you could tell me which services you used. I'm slightly conflicted about the idea but I don't think I'd be able to get an observer/extern status otherwise, and am kind of on my last thread here...any suggestions? and any idea as to what kind of institutions we should look to train at?
thanks!
Members have voted for the institutes here
http://www.usmle-forums.com/externsh...hips-imgs.html
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Old 02-06-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drnirajmavani View Post
thanx for ur reply....I did a paid externship and was worried after seeing this thread
May I ask which company secured ur externship, which hospital and which state
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Old 02-08-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drzamzam View Post
May I ask which company secured ur externship, which hospital and which state
Hi drzamzam,

If you are interested in securing residency-relevant U.S. clinical experiences, PM me and I will be more than happy to discuss our college's Medical Residency Track in Advanced Medical Assisting with you. You may also visit the following post for more information. Advanced Colleges of America??

Sincerely,
Emerald
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Old 11-27-2012
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Default Externships are illegal?!?

I didn't want to start another thread so instead I'm just bumping this one!

Don't know if this has been posted earlier but I just came accross this blog post that warns against paid externships: http://im-for-imgs.com/2011/11/05/wa...n-externships/

For those who don't want to bother going onto another page, I'm quoting a few lines from the post that ought to be highlighted:

"Program directors are smart people and they know that these letters and experiences are not very worthwhile. A letter from a private physician office is suspect in many ways. First off, the physician has most likely been paid by an agency who received money from the extern. The letter written in support of the extern is biased as the physician is paid on behalf of the extern. Even if the physician states to the extern otherwise, the letter is a formality. I have never seen a critical letter from a private physicianís practice of an externís performance. I have seen critical letters from physicians in hospitals where IMGs do observerships. Remember, the ideal US clinical experience and only useful clinical experiences is a clinical rotation in the US at a university hospital while you are a medical student or Non-ACGME Clinical Fellowships or training programs. "
According to it, any hands-on clinical activity an unlicensed IMG performs is the unauthorized practice of medicine and is accountable as a felony!

What got me worried more was this link within that blog post: http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/201...9/prsd0720.htm - its a news from the AMA titled "California doctors could face sanctions for letting unlicensed IMGs treat patients"

There's another post in the same blog titled "Externship doesn't mean anything" - http://im-for-imgs.com/2011/07/26/ex...mean-anything/

Could someone explain what this all means? Does it mean getting USCE through externship agencies would actually hurt my CV and make a deceitful candidate to PDs? So if I'm unable to do an elective in the US as student, I won't have any means to avail truthful/proper US LORs?

Any input will be highly appreciated!
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  #10  
Old 02-28-2013
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Is a paid externship , one that pays you or one that you pay them?
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Old 03-06-2013
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It's one where you pay them

In terms of LoRs, it really depends on the service.. If you specifically ask them about the nature of the letters - many will tell you outright if you receive one on hospital letterhead or not.

If it's on hospital letterhead and signed by your preceptor, how will program directors know you paid for it? So let's say they do inquire - the only way they'd know is if you actually volunteered this info.. Why would you take that chance instead of just finding out what type of LoR you get before enrolling in that service?

I paid for all my clerkships and got strong LoRs all written personally by my preceptors (whom I also built personal friendships with) on hospital letterhead. I didn't want paid v unpaid to factor into my interviews at all and it didn't.

Quote:
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Is a paid externship , one that pays you or one that you pay them?
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  #12  
Old 09-05-2013
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Originally Posted by DrBear View Post
It's one where you pay them

In terms of LoRs, it really depends on the service.. If you specifically ask them about the nature of the letters - many will tell you outright if you receive one on hospital letterhead or not.

If it's on hospital letterhead and signed by your preceptor, how will program directors know you paid for it? So let's say they do inquire - the only way they'd know is if you actually volunteered this info.. Why would you take that chance instead of just finding out what type of LoR you get before enrolling in that service?

I paid for all my clerkships and got strong LoRs all written personally by my preceptors (whom I also built personal friendships with) on hospital letterhead. I didn't want paid v unpaid to factor into my interviews at all and it didn't.
where have you done your externships?
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Old 03-23-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hokolesqua View Post
I don't think this is true.

These are my reasons:

1) There are hundreds of paid externships places and I don't think program directors are aware of all those spaces.
2) Externships are sometimes even asked to be paid by high profile university programs, so it's not something "dirty" or "non-professional".
3) Some externships companies do not guarantee an LoR, they provide objective assessment and you are paying to get trained not to get the LoR.
4) I personally know several colleagues who signed up with externship companies and they were then successfully matched. None of them mentioned to me that they faced a problem with program directors because of those externship rotations.
5) PDs do not care how did you get the LoR, they just want to make sure that you were exposed to US clinical practice and that you can actually speak English and deal with patients.
6) I believe that no physician in USA will lie and write about you stuff which are not true, even though you paid them. US physicians are very meticulous and they are very much aware of the professional code of conduct.

Also, very importantly, if the program director asked you (have you paid to get that LoR), your answer should be the following:

((Thank you for bringing that up. I paid the X company to find me a training position because I couldn't find it by other means. The attending whom I worked with told me from the beginning that the LoR is not guaranteed and the fact I paid to get trained has nothing to do with my assessment. Also, the money I paid did not go only to the attending but it also went to pay for liability insurance, company profit, objective assessment, and other venues.))

I don't have any affiliation with paid externships companies but I think they are the only way for IMGs to get into "the closed doors" of US clinical practice. Very few physicians are willing to allow you temper with their patients (hands-on practice) FOR FREE! American people are materialistic and they won't go that far in helping you get the hands-on for free and that fact is well known by program directors.


this reply seems more logical.
nothing comes free.
US hospitals won't allow IMG for free.
demand/supply economics.

if u demand, u have to pay.
if hosp demands, u r paid.
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