[Haisook]

Hello all. I have a couple of questions about USCE:

1. If I take USCE in a private clinic, could this count as an externship? or just observership? -- I mean is it possible for externship to be taken in a private clinic?

2. Will this kind of USCE - whether counted as observership or externship - be valuable in the Match? The doctor I'll be working with primarily works in a large teaching hospital, and practices in other two offices. He is of my same nationality, btw. However, he assured me that by having 99 scores in both steps and with letters of recommendation I'll be able to match.

3. I've read that it's possible - if such CE truly would be an observership - that it can be kind of 'converted' to an externship on paper. Here's the quote I've found on a USMLE guide on the web.

One advantage of observing a private practitioner is that the camaraderie builds up much better between you and the physician - you may gradually be allowed to touch-n-examine patients rather than just observe, and your 'observership' may well be qualified to be called an externship ;-). Of course, I suggest you get an OK from the MD about calling the experience as an externship before putting it up on the Common Application Format (CAF) of the ERAS application. Hmmmm...as you hear often - in USA, do not undersell yourself...always oversell ;-)

^ I don't know if this is legal or even possible.

I'd appreciate your insight.
Thank you.

 

[Sabio]

Answering your questions

Shadowing your private clinic physician is certainly underrated if we compare it to other bigger observerships such as in big teaching hospitals.

However, that does not mean it's not useful. It's a great idea to get into the clinical life here in USA and many many residency programs will certainly appreciate it.

It depends on the state where your private clinic is located, states such as California (see this) and Texas do not allow unlicensed physicians to touch patients and so accordingly even if the attending allowed you to do physicals you should not mention it in your CV or in the LoR. But if the state allows that (for example New Jersey, Missouri, and Maryland) then it's perfectly OK to mention that and your observership will then transform into an externship and he can then say that you examined patients, took histories, assisted in documentations, ...etc

 

[Haisook]

Thanks for your reply, Sabio.

The location will be in Chicago, IL.

I have a question: is there such a thing as an informal externship in a large teaching hospital? I mean can that doctor I know arrange to have me working in that hospital outside of an official program?

 

[Sabio]

Yes. That's even better

Yes. He can take you with him to the teaching hospital where he work and you can add that to your CV. He can even allow you to take histories and examine patients in that hospital.

Even better, it would be best if the letter of recommendation that he writes for you is written on that hospital official letter head paper and signed by him with his title being the faculty of that teaching hospital.

If this happens, then your experience is officially regarded as a hands-on externship rather than observership and this will get really good positions later on in the match.

 

[Haisook]

Thanks,

I'm confused about something:

When you say "mention this in your CV", I wonder what it means. After completing an externship, will I receive a specific signed paper or will the letter of recommendation contain information about the USCE taken?

 

[good_boy_1234]

In the match process... you have to enter your work experience which is Externship in your case....Name it with dates.
You will get a letter of recommendation that includes your work with him & dates.

You have to enter Externship in CV in your ERAS profile & send the letter of Recommendation to programs you are interested in

 

[Haisook]

Thanks for your reply,

In the match process... you have to enter your work experience which is Externship in your case....Name it with dates.
You will get a letter of recommendation that includes your work with him & dates.

You have to enter Externship in CV in your ERAS profile & send the letter of Recommendation to programs you are interested in

Hmm.. so there isn't a specific paper from the hospital saying I had externship in it. It's all about the letter of recommendation which mentions it. I just have to enter that I spent a certain time doing externship in the appropriate application. Is it the Common Application Format (CAF) that's mentioned in the quote in my first post?

 

[rasheed]

yes

Hmm.. so there isn't a specific paper from the hospital saying I had externship in it. It's all about the letter of recommendation which mentions it. I just have to enter that I spent a certain time doing externship in the appropriate application. Is it the Common Application Format (CAF) that's mentioned in the quote in my first post?

Yes. It's the common application form in your ERAS account which literally your CV.
Every experience in your medical career should be accounted for there and supported by letters of recommendations and/or certificates if it was an official job.

 

[FSUSTC]

Yes. He can take you with him to the teaching hospital where he work and you can add that to your CV. He can even allow you to take histories and examine patients in that hospital.

Even better, it would be best if the letter of recommendation that he writes for you is written on that hospital official letter head paper and signed by him with his title being the faculty of that teaching hospital.

If this happens, then your experience is officially regarded as a hands-on externship rather than observership and this will get really good positions later on in the match.

Hello Sabio ,
You told attending can take to the hospital and can let you to take history and doing physical . But here you didnt mention anything about liability insurance ... If you do not have liability insurance and your attending take you to his hospital and let you touch the patient , isnt it illegal to mention ....... I m not talking abt texas , cali or PA ) Because in this forum lots of people told , you should have liability insurance for externship .... Can you please clear up these things ?
Thank You

 

[hedihav_x]

hi Sabio, can u tell me:
how about Pennsylvania? does it allow unlicensed physicians to touch patient or not?

 

[Sabio]

hi Sabio, can u tell me:
how about Pennsylvania? does it allow unlicensed physicians to touch patient or not?

As far as I know, it's allowed, as I know a friend who has done it in Philly, but I have no documented reference.
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[FSUSTC]

Externship both in private clinic and hospital ....... Can I put Extern in position space in CAF for both places ....

 

[DrAGA]

i have a question too...i am on CA and found some private clinics MD who agree to give me LOR ..i dont know how it possible but they saythey can give me lor for intership and externship....is that possible?i amdoing many thinks in clinics..taing hystory and some managing of patient...

 

[littlecrasper]

Indiana

As far as I know, it's allowed, as I know a friend who has done it in Philly, but I have no documented reference.
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Hello Sabio,
Sorry for tagging along here. I'm gonna do clinical observership at a private clinic in Indiana next week. If the primary doctor allows me to do physical examination and history taking. Could I mention in CV?? Is it allowed for Indiana state.
Thanks

 

[IMlover]

Hi Sabio,

Thank you for your explanations. May I ask, how do we find info regarding restriction on different states of nonlicensed physician touching a patient?

I'm in Oklahoma and the free clinic I volunteered in allow me to take hx and do P/E and write it on chart which subjected to the physician's evaluation.

If I am ECFMG certified, does that make me a licensed physician?